Schießplatzmeister

Dear Yankee: Remember too, that in W?rttemberg the custom of wearing triangular ribbons was popular too. So, basically the Austrian-style was at times popular in the southern German States. You are right about the red-tint gold. The earlier badges were of higher content gold alloy. Usually, at least 750 gold (750/1000 or 75% if you will). The red colour was made by alloying copper with the gold resulting in a reddish/pink color. This is commonly known as "rose gold". Order jewelers sometimes used yellow gold and rose gold for different parts of the same order badge to provide a beautiful contrast. Hallmarks on any SEHO badges are unusual in my experience (however limited). Rod's Knight 2nd w/ swords is the only piece that I have record of being marked. I own a gold Commander's grade badge from the mid-19th century and it has no markings, and my Knight 1st in gold from the late 19th century has no markings either. Of course, most stars (jewels) were marked. Good deduction on your part regarding markings on badges. The official Order Jewelers for Prussian, Bavarian, and Saxon Orders at least usually marked their pieces, whereas the smaller States did not as often. I have never owned or held for inspection any 1st type gold badges, but I do not recall ever seeing markings listed when these pieces come up for auction. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Rod: The pieces are forgeries meant to deceive collectors in my opinion. They are not "wearing copies", etc. etc. They are garbage in my opinion and I wouldn't want them if they were given to me (a genuine 1914 EKII has more value to me!). Save your money for now. You will need at least $25,000 for a genuine PLM if one comes up for sale on the open collector's market. There are genuine pieces out there, but most are in well-established collections. The genuine item just doesn't pop-up on Ebay. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Yankee: Thank you for the scans of your wonderful Knight 2nd Class badge. It is definately a German-made piece in my opinion. It is of superb quality. The ribbon is a typical Saxon-style tri-fold (also the ONLY way that Austrians wore their awards). The Saxons often utilized this style of wear, but not always. The ribbon of course is an old silk original. A perfect piece! The case looks Austrian to me, but for which award and which manufacturer, is anyone's guess. I do not believe that they really go together. Does the badge fit in the nest properly? Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Rod: Please see the listing for the Red Eagle Order 1st Class star. There is a photo of an "FR" mark in a rhombus that is a post-1918 Rothe mark. Does your "EE" mark look anything like this? Thanks, "SPM"

Hello Yankee: An excellent question! Good news! Although I don't know how many pieces Rothe made, I do know that they made them. From the collection/auction of my dearly departed friend Eric Ludvigsen is an example that will make you a believer. Please refer to Thies Auction No. 26 April 22, 2005 lot 1239 (page 137). It is a silver-gilt Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenach Order of the White Falcon knight's badge (reverse side w/ trophy of arms) in a typical Austrian case (rounded bottom) by Rothe & Neffe, Wien. The piece is marked by Rothe & Neffe and has a post-1864 silver mark. Although not an SEHO, it shows the wide variety of pieces that they made. Does your badge have any markings (suspension ring area?). I now refer to another example from Eric's collection. See Thies Auction No. 28 December 10, 2005 lot 403 (page 236). Pictured is a SEHO Commander's badge in silver-gilt with gold medallions. Thies describes this piece as an Austrian or French manufactured piece from 1880-1900. The bust on the obverse medallion is a separate piece. Although Rothe made a lot of terrible quality copies after 1918, their older workmanship was always superb. I do not think that it would be an exageration to say that they probably manufactured just about every major German States Order prior to 1918. These pieces, although technically "copies" are usually of superb quality and much more difficult to find than standard-issue German-made pieces. They are under-appreciated currently. I hope that this helps more than it confuses! Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Rod: Congratulations on obtaining a very nice piece! I can't tell from the photo if the body of the piece is made of silver (2nd Class) or gilded silver (1st Class). Remember that silver sometimes has a "straw" coloured patinae and that the gilding on some pieces is very light. So, the answer is not always obvious. I have not seen another piece that was marked before (very interesting). "925" is not common as a pre-1918 German content mark. Since the center is gold, this is most likely an early WWI piece. These badges were also made by Order jewelers in States other than Saxon States and in Countries other than Germany. You are correct, the "S" hilt swords are called "French" style sometimes. The other type of hilt is commonly referred to as the "Roman" type. A collector friend once told me that he thought that the "French"-hilted pieces were Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha awards. I have found no compelling reason to make rhyme or reason of the sword-hilt types one way or the other at this point. So, if anyone has any wisdom to share, please reveal it now! If the E. E. denotes Hofjuwelier Eberhardt in Altenburg, then obviously, my friend's theory was not correct! The badges of this Order are truly beautiful! Congratulations regarding a nice acquisition! Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Rod: An interesting question that you pose. Could you post a photo of your piece? Do the swords have "bow-tie" hilts or "S" hilts. I have heard a variety of theories regarding the reason for the difference and your piece could spark some interesting discussion. By the way, "swords-on-ring" for these badges would denote a private award by the Duke in the 1930's (he was an NSDAP sympathizer). Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Michael: Regarding the configuration of the SEHO reverse center, the band of rue arcs from the 10:00 o'clock position to the 4:00 o'clock position in the center (I am sure that this is what you meant to write). A badge with the band in another position has merely been knocked about. These pieces are separately pinned in the center and can easily move if handled roughly. As mentioned above, no shamrocks here! The leaves represent rue leaves which were (and still are by some I guess) thought to have powerful medicinal properties during the middle-ages. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello again Medalnet: More on the "incredible offer" e-mail. My guess is that they got my contact information through the BDOS on-line membership listing since that information is public (and since they wrote in German in the first paragraph). They are not primarily English-speaking (per their word usage/grammer). They probably are not primarily German-speaking either??? I possibly smell former com-block scammers at work. Caveat Emptor! "SPM"

Hello Medalnet: I just received the e-mail below. It is interesting that they didn't sign their name! There is just an e-mail address. It seems as though they have everything that a collector could possibly want. I bet they have great items for sale for cheap prices. I send them payment via Western Union, and wait, and wait, and wait, ........and eventually receive nothing. I think not! "Hello: Ich biete deutsche Auszeichnungen/Insignien, Helme und Bajonetts/Daggers an (WK1 und WK2). All die Gegenst?nde sind originell und in gutem Zustand. Ich verkaufe sie zu einem sehr g?nstigen Preis. I have some German Insignia/Medals from WWI and WWII and a few German helmets from WWI and WWII in a good condition. There are also German daggers. I have also a few bayonets and swords for sale: japanese arisaka, and three french bayonets: Chassepot, Grass and Lebel. I would like to sell them for a reasonable price. I also have a japanese swords (katana and tanto) with the blade from XVIII century. If you could have an interest, let me know. Regards." It seems as though there are possibly some criminals at work targeting collectors! Folks, let me know if anyone else gets this one! Best regards, "SPM"

WOW!!!! Now I have something else to look for! Nice work Rick! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello again: After checking a source in my library (and refreshing my memory about a detail regarding known originals) I am pleased to anounce that the star itself is original without a doubt! I do not have a source showing the oak-leaf attachment on known pieces, but believe that this feature is also proper judging by the workmanship and quality. Thanks, "SPM"

Hello folks: The RAO Star w/ oak leaves looks good to me! I don't believe that it is post-1918. In fact it looks like a late 1800's star with gold (not gilt) applied cross arms. The rivets are correct and I don't have a problem with the oak leaf attachment (look at the nut, it looks like period workmanship). The oak leaves also appear to be gold. My vote is that it is probably good. This seller has sold some great pieces lately, and I think that this is no exception. Watch the sale price on this one! I do not believe that the case belongs to the star however. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Stogieman: Unfortunately, I don't know where the bar is, so I can't contribute in this regard. The SHRK is made of gold and is an awarded piece of Freedom-War (Napoleonic War) vintage. Very nice and not found on the market too often! I'm still looking for one myself! I can see why the piece disappeared so fast! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello PaulR: The bar is full-sized and a very unusual style for a German group (and yes, it is mine). I'm sure that more awards were made later, but I would guess that the non-combatant cross award number never went over 2,000. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear PaulR: I've had a bit of time to look through my research materials and I have found the following information. According to Schneider, as of March 4, 1867, there were 144,000 combatant awards and just 1,200 non-combatant awards! This gives you an idea of the rarity of these pieces. All of the listings refer to these medals as having been made of "oxidized bronze" and not the "cannon-bronze" of the combatant crosses which were struck from bronze smelted from captured Austrian cannon. The piece that I have (shown above as part of a group) is struck and it appears to have then been dipped in acid which has given it a bright golden-coloured frosted appearance. It appears to be original (especially appearing in this context). Unfortunately, I have not seen enough of them to be able to make a comparison. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Stogieman: It seems as thought the forgers are stepping-up their efforts! While the "right marks" are in the right places, and the eagles look nice, the piece is a modern forgery without a doubt. I'm sure that we will see a lot more of these in the near future! Best regards, "SPM"

As we can see, the first EOD team trials didn't go too well. While smoking, the intrepid team members decided to figure out what the funny looking wire "thingy" at the front of the shell did! And BOOM! I'm sure that they didn't do this a second time and that the other members of the team outside of at least a three (3) meter radius were now much wiser and appreciated the sacrifice made by their friends! "SPM"

Dear PaulR: Don't worry, your non-combat group is definately pre-1900 in my opinion. The unofficial 1866 campaign cross coinage is probably worth a bit less than the official version, but IF the 1870 campaign medal is made of silver, then that medal is worth considerably more than the official version. You have a great and scarce grouping! And yes, the 1866 non-combat cross is a different cross than the other three (3) combat versions. Notice that the inscription is different and that the wreath is of oak-leaves and not laurel-leaves. So, the cross AND the ribbon were different. Congratulations on obtaining these very nice pieces for your collection. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello all: A super-nice bar! Motorhead is right, the 1866 campaign cross is not of the issued coinage and it appears as though the 1870 campaign medal is not either. The 1870 campaign medal appears to have a nice patinae, so my guess is that it may be one of the very scarce SILVER private-purchase medals that I have heard of. The 1866 campaign cross also looks like an extremely-well made striking. So, although not officially awarded pieces a super-nice "deluxe" bar. Congratulations! "SPM"

Dear Motorhead: Good job spotting this fellow under his new disguise! I'm sure that he will be back in the future to sell his garbage under yet another name. The scary part is that some of the forgeries look to be of somewhat decent quality. The Bavarian MVO pieces look very scary indeed! I would like to see one in person to see how really good they are (without spending any money of course). I smell cheap highly skilled eastern-European labor here????? Caveat emptor, "SPM"

Dear Gents: Please add me to the list of folks interested in purchases all of these rolls when they go to print. Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Carol I: This award is on an interesting improvised single mount (I have not seen another exactly like this before). This is a nice added feature! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Carol I: This is the correct type of ribbon (black with white stripes) for an award with swords. As this award was only for Military Officers, it was awarded for a variety of reasons, but not usually for a single act of bravery. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello again: OK, me culpa. It was yellow, so we have a knight I with swords! I think that $1,000 to $1,200 would not be at all unreasonable for a gold knight I with swords. They are certainly not available often on the market! Good luck Carol I! Best regards, "SPM"