Odulf

And some examples from the 2nd World War Studio portrait dated 24 May 1941 Undated studio portrait

Already in 1915 tallies with H.M.S. were introduced for security reasons but, judging from contemporary photos, these were not popular because all through the Great War we see photos of men wearing tallies with ship's names. Below some close-ups from portraits from my collection. Post Card size studio photo, dating from the Great War. Post Card size photo, from the Great War period.

Have you checked: Defending the Reich by David Littlejohn - R.James Bender Publishing, 2007 - page 424/427?

This is a list, made out by an old friend an collector, listing all the non-descriptive war-time tallies in his collections, and variations. The numbers in the last column are the numbers of tallies he had. and here are some of mine: Some of these are very rare, such as H.M,M.L. No.266 (Motor Launch) H.M. MINESWEEPER is printed in gold H.M. COASTAL FORCES is probably post war, for small crafts with less than 10 men dressed as seamen.

Indeed those two Pembrokes are pre-war. I will look up some more pre-war tallies to show you the difference in style. It is wise not to buy any famous ship's name and believe that the tally was worn during the war, as I explained before, many famous names were carried in the Royal Navy for centuries. Most dealers have no clue what so ever about cap tallies, and they would sell a lot of nonsens with the tally for the sake of business. It is a minefield, but also a very interesting field to explore, with very little reliable sources for information, but when you use your whits you'll pick up the information soon enough. Let's start with the war-issues first. This is a copy of an Order issued by the Royal Canadian Navy Board in 1942. The same regulations applied to all commonwealth navies.

All tallies shown in #27 are post war. Please note that there are many different types of tallies because some ship’s names have been used more than once. The tally can give a good guide as to what ship it is from. So, a name such as EURYALUS can have at least three different tallies. To find out which way to tell is difficult but the full stops, if any, can be a good guide, but also the style of the letters. Again this can cause a problem because of various makers so it all begins with full stops. WW1 names have a smaller letter and a smaller (narrow) full stop (gold wire script) 1930 to 1939 tallies have a slightly larger full stop (gold wire script) 1946 to 1956 tallies gave a slightly larger full stop than 30-39 (gold wire & rayon script) After 1956 (approx.) no stops were used anymore (saving material) (gold wire & rayon script) 1980 stay bright script Rayon letters began in the 1940’s as an economy measure. Different makers had different shaped letters, but the letters are always of a near orange colour on a cotton ribbon (of that period). Pale yellow letters are also common but these were made in Australia, Canada, South Africa. During the war also tallies with printed script were used, but these were not official In the 1950’s a new type of rayon was used, nearly olive green and on a different style of ribbon (harder) till the polyester ribbons came in.

Hi Justin, I don't intend to dissapoint you, but all of these tallies look like post war to me. HMS AJAX was first commissioned 1935. In 1939/40 the tallies bearing the ship's name were exchanged for tallies reading H.M.S.. These tallies remained until after the war. Ajax was decommissioned 1948. I recon that few of her complement ever wore the tally with this ship's name after the war. In 1963 a Leander Class Frigate bearing the same name was commissioned. The tally dates from that period. A tally bearing the name HMS RODNEY was worn between 1927 and 1940, however, in that period the letters were narrow and the full text was followed by a full stop. RODNEY was lost in the war and no ship was named likewise after the war. However, tallies with this name were made in the 1970s for collectors and veterans (see enclosed photo from my collection). When you compare your RODNEY with mine and with HMS RHYL, ROYALIST and RAPID you will notice that the type of lettering is all the same. HMS ARK ROYAL was commissioned in December 1938 and sunk 1941. Tallies with the ship's name were worn for a very brief period. But after the war two RN Carriers (R09, 1950-1979; R07, 1981-2011) were commissioned and the tally was produced for that period. HMS EXETER was commissioned mid 1931 and sunk 1942. The tally was used before the war, but with different (narrow) lettering followed by a full stop. This ship's name was used post war by a type 42 Destroyer from 1978. Post war tallies had names followed by a "fat" full stop until the mid 1960s. I have many examples of these in my collection. Pre war tallies had narrow lettering and a meagre full stop. Post 1960s tallies have no full stop. In the 1980s letters were in stay brite colouring. It helps also to check out the material of the ribbon. Pre war ribbons are of silk, during the war cotton was used until rayon came in use in the 1950s.

This is a sound advice Justin, I have some repro-ribbons in my collection, but just for the sake of study. Tallies of famous ship's names such as Rodney, Ark Royal, Hood, Repulse are in demand for all sorts or reasons; for instance by medal collectors who like to put up a group of medals to a casualty (or survivor) for display in combination with a tally. Also, these replicas were produced for gatherings of Naval veterans, thus not intentionally with evil objectives to deceive collectors. There is no harm in replica tallies, as long as you know how to recognise them. Usually they are made on modern machines, so they are a dudd at long distance, unless you know how to tell an new tally from an old one. I like the tallies of the small ships (minor percentage of the crew dressed as sailors), with a ship's name used only for a short time. When studying these ship's histories you might encounter ineresting pieces of Naval history which escaped the Grand Book. The early tallies were made of silk, ship's names were (officially) embroidered in gold wire (in fact it was gilted copper), but due to circumstances these corroded and turned green and even rotted out of the silk... In the Great War and 2nd World War no ship's names were allowed on the ribbons, thus tallies with H. M. S. , H.M. SUBMARINES, H.M. COASTAL FORCES, H.M. MINESWEEPERS etc. were worn. Some of these were printed in gold on ryon, some embroidered in gold (for best dress) or pale yellow (for working rig). Also in the Dominions tallies were produced and these can be recognised by the material and the colour of yellow (I have found no evidence of gilt after the outhreak of war). In Malta there was a vivid home industry of Naval badges and tallies, so some hand-embroiderd tallies may come from there. Canada produced rayon pale yellow tallies on a rather loose wave after 1943, but all of this has to be taken not as the Gospel, for there was none. There was a War on, and they had no soft spot for collectors... The final book on British and Commonwealth Naval Cap Tallies still has to be written, who takes the challenge?

There are many details from which pre and post war tallies can be recognized. Most significant are the length of the text (or the with of the letters) and the size of the dots. In general I hold the narrow letters and the narrow dots for the oldest. Post war tallies lack the dots after the ship's name. But also the (colour of the) material can be an indication. Tallies were produced by various contractors, thus in the shape and details of letters ther can be differences (look at the R). As stated above, it is a complicated matter, which takes a lot of experience that cannot be learned from just reading about it. One has to take time, rely on older and more experienced collectors (as I am indebted to old guys long gone) and a keen eye for details. Enclosed some tallies of HMS PEMBROKE (RN Barracks in Chatham), built 1901 and closed 1976. Tallies with this name have been used for 3/4 century, and see the differences... Also, it helps to use your whits and Janes or other reference books to date ship's/establishment's names. Still specific differences can be told easily such as ryon lettering which was used in the 1940s and 50s, the new bling gold from the 1980s, and other features.

"Zur freundlichen Erinnerung an die gemeinsamen Übung in Dessau (16.9.-12.-10.1935)"

Thanks for showing, and the explanation by Glenn! Now I understand this photo, of Leutnant E. Wiedemann, Adjutant I/RIR 65. But my photo is dated 1-1917 ... (January).

I would suggest, due to the rope cingel, that he is a member of the "Franciscan family". This family consists of three (male) orders: - Fraters Minores (O.F.M.) - Conventuals (O.F.M.C.) - Capuchins (O.F.M.Cap.) All male and female members of Franciscan orders can be recognized by the white rope (cingel) with three knots in the loose end, round the waist. The males all wear a brown cloak, with minor details differing between the 3 orders.

THE EXECUTION OF AN ENGLISH TRAITOR In the 1970s I picked up the accompanying picture while on holidays in France. It is a page from a French magazine named Supplément Littéraire Illustré du “Petit Parisien”, unfortunately the page is undated but obviously it is from the Boer War. This picture of an execution intrigued me then, but it still puzzles me today, and for many reasons. UN TRAITRE ANGLAIS EXECUTION D’UN GARDE-SÉMAPHORE Un garde-sémaphore ainglais a été convaincu de correspondence avec l’ennemi, dans des conditions exceptionellement graves. Voici comment les faits se sont passes: Ces jours derniers, un navire charché de troupes entrait au port de Durban. Au moment où le bateau passait devant le promontoire en haut duquel se trouve un semaphore l’officier de quart remarqua des signaux de télégraphie optique qui étaient faits de l’autre côté de phare. Il dénonça aussitôt le gardien du semaphore qui fut tout de suit soumis à une surveillance discrete. Bientôt, on acquit la certitude que ce dernier signalait chaque nouvelle arrive de troupes et d’armes à des complices postés sur une montagne, à quelque distance de là. Ces complices communiquaient les renseignements, par le meme procédé, de hauteur en hauteur, à des individus qui, en deux ou trios jours, les transmattaient au quartier general boër situé sur la Tugela. L’ennemi fut ainsi assez exactement renseigné sur les forces anglaises envoyées au general Buller, et qui, toutes, passaient par le port de Durban. Le gardien du semaphore inculpé fit des aveux; on apprit que ses exercices de télégraphie optique duraient depuis le commencement de la guerre, et que chaque télégramme lui rapportait quinze cents francs. Il avait gagné ainsi environ cent cinquante mille francs: un joli dernier. C’était un Anglais pur sang, d’une soixantaine d’années; il occupait la place depuis longtemps et avait su inspirer la plus grande contiance. Sa femme et ses cinq enfants qui ignoraient ce manège se livrèrent à un désespoir déchirant quand on embarqua le gardien à bord d’un navire de guerre où il fut fusillé. L ‘exécution eut lieu aussi discrètement que possible, mais pas assez cependant pour que le fait ne fût connu par les habitants de Durban. From the French explanation on the reverse(above) it can be deducted that the culprit was a 60 years old English semaphore guard in the harbour of Durban. He admitted that since the beginning of the (Boer) war he transmitted telegrams containing military information to the Boer HQ on the Tugela River for money (1500 francs a time) and in total he gained 150,000 francs. Thus he informed the Boer HQ at Tugela about the reinforcements general Buller was landing in Durban. He was taken on board a British warship and shot. The execution took place as discreetly as possible, but not enough however so that it was known by the inhabitants of Durban. First there is the brutality of the scene. Like Admiral Byng in 1757, this (yet) unknown man was shot in the back while sitting on his knees on the deck, blindfolded and facing forward. The only method of capital punishment in the Royal Navy I have knowledge of in the 19th century, is hanging. Did more shootings like this occur on board Navy ships? In the explanation there is no mention about any form of trial. Why bring a traitor on board of a Navy ship to shoot him? Instead they could have hanged him ashore. Why was the execution carried out by the Navy? Even stranger is that the shooting is executed by seamen commanded by the MAA instead of a marines detail. The hapless Admiral Byng was shot by marines, rather obvious when you know that most rifle jobs on board were carried out by marines. And most puzzling is, in all these years I have found no record of this exceptionally execution, and this makes is even more sinister. Why did no local or regional paper report about it? Is it a French hoax perhaps, made up to stir anti-British sentiments? Or is it just a case of juicy journalism based on hear-say? But still, it is an intriguing picture.

Life was different alltogether in those days and probably the parents were happy that their boy had a future in the Army, though it was t harsh life but such was civy street. In the Army under Wellington corporal punishment was executed by the drummers under the eye of the Drum-Major. Corporal punishment was not abolished in the Army until the revised Army Act of 1881, when the ‘cat’ finally stayed in the bag. Today it is hard to understand that also young boys could be flogged as a penalty for their mischief in the first third of the 19th century, when 100 or more lashes were common practice for certain offences. It took the humanitarians in Parliament over half a century to abolish corporal punishment in the Army. But the British never were squeamish, for the caning of schoolboys continued until well into the 20th century.

The name on the blade is Pauwels, the city is 's-Gravenhage (The Hague) in The Netherlands. See also this very nice website: http://www.sabels.net/

An early group photo of the Band of the 22nd Foot Regiment, taken between 1865 and 1873. Clearly visable on the pork pie hats are the digits 22. Please note the very young boys amongst the bandsmen, not drummers but musicians. The size of this original photo is ca. 22x 16 cm

Looks pretty much like RNAS to me.

Some others Post stamp: Unterlüss 3.2.16 - Minenwerfer-Schule 3, Kompanie Blind stamp right corner: Phot. G.Klimmer Bückeburg

Two PEeP Medals in silver from the reign of Pope Pius X (issued before 1909)

Some medal boxes for the PEeP from the period 1888-1968. From left to right: Pius X (1903-1914), Pius XI (1922-1939), Pius XII (1939-1948), Johannes XXIII (1958-1963), Sede Vacante (in between two popes).

For years I have been gathering information about this medal and the other Papal medal for zeal, the Benemerenti Medal, to write an article/booklet about these. Most information to be found on the internet is incomplete and not always correct. I made a small error in my first reaction, Pope Pius X decreed in 1908 that henceforward only the medal in one class (in gold) should be issued; thus all silver and bronze issues date from before 1908. I have many PeP Medals in gold or gilded, and some in silver or silvered, but I have never seen one in bronze. The medal is identical for all periods between 1888 and about 1968, the only way to define the period is examining the papal crest on the box of issue. The parish priest would indicate a member of his congregation (over 45 years of age) with a long history of (today) at least 20 years unbroken volunteer service (unpaid) towards the parish (playing the organ, leading the choir, collecting funds for those in need, etc). Through the bisshop who adds his advice, the request for award would be submitted to the Papal Nuntius (ambassador) in the country. The Nuntius would further the proposal to Rome, to the State Secretary, where in most cases the advice of the bisshop will be followed. The State Secretary (today) has limited the number of PePs to be issued to each diocese. I cannot answer your questions about the quota. For years I have tried to examine the quota of the PeP and the BM Medals as they have been issued in the 19th and 20th century, but this information is not available (to me). The diocesal archives (obviously) have kept no records (or if they did the records are not open for research). In most nations, the PeP was to be considered a foreign decoration. Military personnel should request, from the proper authorities, permission to wear such an award on the uniform; perhaps records have been kept of these requests. But in fact over 95% of these medals were issued to (elderly) civilians, who did not bother to ask for permission. I see no evidence to support your assumption that this group of medals was worn by a Navy man - at least not an active serving member of the forces - perhaps they were made up by a tailor who did much work for the Navy. I think it is likely that the group belonged to a veteran, who wore his medals on (for instance) the Kyffhäuser jacket or so.

"But was it allowed on a 3rd Reich era bar?" Why not? The Vatican State was/is an official nation, with an officially international recognised Head of State (the Pope), passports, ambassadors etc. It never was a hostile state for Germany, so there was no reason why the official orders and decorations of this state should not be worn by German national subjects.

The Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice (in gold) is a rather common Papal award for lays, for long service towards the RC parish. Though the medal knew 3 classes (gold, silver, bronze) from 1910 onward only one class remains (gold). The design remained the same until Pope Paul VI altered the medal and it's ribbon drasticly. 100.000s have been issued to Roman Catholics all over the world.

Recently found this nice supersized studio portrait, obviously from the 40s.

An undated press photo from the interbellum: "Fire! England's youngest Gunners at gun drill. As a special show in this year's great Royal Tornament in the Olymipa Hall (London), the youngest Cadets of the Duke of York's Royal Military School in Dover give a Gun Drill, with the purpose to demonstrate how to drive on, give a few rounds of quick-fire, and drove off again. They are now in severe training, because every team wants to win 1st prize. You see the firing of a 12 Pounder gun."