Kev in Deva

This picture shows Rear of Medals 4 - 5 - 6. Pictures of the ribbon and brevet to follow. Kevin in Deva

This picture shows Rear of Medals 1 - 2 - 3. Kevin in Deva

This picture shows Front of Medals 4 - 5 - 6. Kevin in Deva

Dear Gentlemen, this post is an attempt to display the variations in the Romanian Inter-Allied Victor Medal of W.W.1 the medal has been described in detail in the book ?The Inter-Allied Victory Medals of World War 1.? by Alexander J. Laslo. Pages 79 - 82. Designer: Constantin Kristesko. Manufacturer: Unknown. Probably a commercial firm in Paris. Number Issued*: Approximately 300,000. * Applicable to the Official type. Number of Unofficial issues not known. Unofficial makers to numerous to know. Basic design showing to the front a standing ?Victory? with a downward pointing sword held in the left hand point of the sword behind the right foot. The right foot standing above the rim with a fold of the dress hanging over the edge. Rear: Heavy chain with names of ten of the Allied Countries on the links, starting at the 9 o?clock position with the name ROMANIA, ITALIA, FRANTA, ANGLIA, BELGIA, GRECIA, JAPONIA, SERBIA, *RIC* and CHINA.In the centre of the medal a double edged battle axe standing upright to the left laurel leaves and to the right oak leaves, the words MARLE RAZEBOI over PENTRU CIVILIZATIE. / THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILISATION. The medals in my picture show from left to right: Medal 1 & 2: Official Type, this comes with the designer name lightly impressed on the rear next to the link of the chain with the word ?JAPONIA.? Diameter: 36mm for both and ball mount for ribbon ring, and 4mm thick Medal 3: Unofficial Type 1, nearly the same as the official but has not got the designers name next to the JAPONIA link. Diameter: just a shade over 36mm, and has a ball ribbon ring mount, and 4mm thick Medal 4: Unofficial Type 2, not being as refined or detailed as the official types, no designer name, in the countries names the ?N? letter has been inverted and the ?C? letter has replaced the letter ?G? so the names read: ROMAИIA, FRAИTA AИCLIA, JAPOИIA, and CHIИA. And the letter ?G? in the names are replaced with a ?C? and read ANCLIA, BELCIA, CRECIA, There also shows a defined rim to the edge of the medal. Diameter: just a shade short of 38mm, and ball ribbon ring mount, and 3mm thick. Metal types varies. Medal 5: Unofficial Type 3a, there is a pronounced difference in the wings of ?Victory? and both the right foot of the figure and the robe drape over the rim. With regards the rear the connecting links of the chain between the links with names are very thin, the words are still spelt with a ?C? instead of ?G?, but the letter ?N? is the Roman version as opposed to the Cyrillic version, next to the ?JAPONIA? link is part of a leaf in the place of the designer name on the original. Diameter: 36mm and the ribbon ring mount is cylindrical, the medal is a shade over 4mm thick. Medal 6: Unofficial Type 3a, (Cast Type) very rough appearance above the right wing tip of ?Victory? can be found a molding flaw, both the foot and robe blend into the rim, good detail to the rear but a rough appearance to the metal, the country names again feature a ?C? instead if a ?G?, but the letter ?N? is the Roman version as opposed to the Cyrillic version, and again a leaf design protrudes into the space where the designer name is found upon the original. Diameter; is between 35 - 36mm, the ribbon ring mount is cylindrical, and the medal is 4mm thick. All thickness measurements are taken from the centre of the medal between front and back. GENERAL INFORMATION ON THE ROMANIAN VICTORY MEDAL: The Romanian Victory Medal was established by King Ferdinand I on the 20th of July 1921 with High Decree No. 3.390/921. Award criteria for the Victory medal were issued in Ministry of War Decision No. 847 of 3rd of August 1921. According to High Decree No. 3.390/921, all personnel who effectively took part in the fighting at anytime between 28th August 1916 and 31st of March 1921 were eligible for the Victory Medal. The late date was probably intended to recognize operations following WW1 which lead to the annexation of Transylvanian region of Hungary. Decision No. 847 listed the categories of personnel eligible for the Victory medal. "No minimum period of service was imposed, however entitlement was limited to combatants and to those traditionally noncombatant role directly related and contributed to the fighting at the front or from a rear area, such as aircraft mechanics, stretcher bearers, surgeons, hospital orderlies, and Chaplains. Commanders of Artillery units, Divisions, Corps, and Armies, their Chiefs-of-Staff and Staff Officers, who performed duty at the front, while falling somewhere between combatants and noncombatants, also were eligible. Officers decorated with Order of Military Virtue, automatically qualified, yet military attaches were specifically excluded." Decision No 847 emphasized that ?personnel outside these categories were not entitled to the Victory Medal, and that the greatest care will be taken to ensure that those that were remote from the fighting were not recommended.? The medals hung from a "Rainbow" ribbon of a style peculier to the Romanian design, however variations have been encountered, I personaly believe that the official medals came from France with a ribbon, while the unofficial medals were supplied with a ribbon of local manufacture, however I have no documentation to back this up, so it must remain as conjecture. THE UNOFFICIAL VICTORY MEDAL: These variations of the unofficial Victory Medals may have been prompted by a provision in Decision No, 847 which allowed veterans, after obtaining the Authorizing Brevet, to wear a facsimile Victory Medal, purchased from a commercial source until the official versions was sent and received by the veteran. Given this sanction, it has been speculated that several military outfitters began to produce the Victory Medal in advance of the official striking to meet a perceived demand among the military veterans. Lacking an official example to model their version on these suppliers had to resort to a drawing, or drawings or more likely a written description of the proposed medals design, which ultimately lead to a variation in the dies and made the refined product more difficult to achieve. This and the inferior manufacturing techniques, and the rush to complete the medals resulted in some very crude interpretations and models being produced. It is known that large numbers of Romanian WW1 veterans bought these unofficial medals including some lacking the Authorizing Brevet, others never bothered to obtain the official medals when available and added the unofficial medals to their medal bars where they remain to this day. I have in my possession a bar for over 25 years service to a Romanian officer which has an Unofficial Victory Medal mounted upon it. Accompanying the Victory Medal was the ?Brevet? or award paper which normally measures 21.2 cm by 34.5cm. The first picture shows Front of Medals 1 - 2 - 3. Kevin in Deva

THE REAR:

Hallo Gentlemen, I would like to take the oppertunity to post pictures of 2 Austrian medals here. A Romanian friend has obtained an Austrian SIGNVM LAUDIS with crown and brought it over for comparison, we both see slight differences between our medals: 1. Ribbon ring size: mine is smaller- 2. One has an open crown (his) the other solid, (mine). 3. the detail on his open crown medal are more pronounced than on mine. 4. Diameter of the medal: mine, 30mm. His is 31mm. 5, Width of the crown from side to side: Mine is just on 20mm, his is the same 20mm. 6. From the top of the Cross to the bottom of the medal: Mine 50mm, his is 52mm. Any comments / facts would be appreciated. I hope its a variation Photo of the rear will be added on the next post. Kevin in Deva.

Also picked up yesterday was a nice Romanian 5 medal bar for the following awards: REPUBLICIA POPULARA ROMINA / the Peoples Republic of Romania. 1947 - 1965. 1, Order of the Star*, V Class, * Order of the Star, Romanian People's Republic (Ordinul "Steaua Republicii Populare Rom?ne") (1947-1965) 2, "Liberation from the Fascist Yoke" Medal (Medalia "Eliberarea de sub jugul fascist") (1949) 3, Medal of Military Merit - Gold (10 yrs. svc) (Medalia "Meritul Militar") (1954) 4, Medal in Commemoration of the Collectivization of Agriculture (Medalia "?n cinstea ?ncheieri colectiviz?rii agriculturii") (1962) 5 Medal of Victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941-45, Russia. the ribbons are paint? or paper under plastic. and show a mix of Civil as well as military awards. Kevin in Deva.

Also picked up yesterday was a nice Romanian 3 medal bar for the following awards: REPUBLICIA POPULARA ROMINA / the Peoples Republic of Romania. 1947 - 1965. 1, Order of the Star*, V Class, * Order of the Star, Romanian People's Republic (Ordinul "Steaua Republicii Populare Rom?ne") (1947-1965) 2, Order of 23rd August (Ordinul "23 August"), Romanian People's Republic (1959) 3, Medal of Victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941-45, Russia. the ribbons in cloth and were originaly under a light plastic cover that has broken away. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Joel, its a VOLUNTEER BAVARIAN FIREMANS AWARD FOR 25 YEARS SERVICE, 1922 - 1928 and can be found in Kreigsmetal / Zink gold painted, value in my catalog is given at 30 Euro, but that depends on the desireability of the item. Kevin in Deva

Inside the cases, strangely no recess for a ribbon bar was included or a ribbon bar Kevin in Deva

THE CASES. The third class box is a different model to the I & II boxes being a darker colour, (it also appears the marking on the lid was a bit slap-dash as well) the hinge of the III class box is broken, its only cloth backed tape, and can be repaired. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Gentlemen just spotted this on German ebay, what do you do when you have a common Rumanian medal issued in the thousands, slap a pair of German crossed swords on the ribbon, claim it was issued to Romanian "Legion" ex IRON GUARD* officers attached to the Germans Army, then sit back and watch the ignorant fools throw their money at you auction for the honour to claim this "Rare" prize. * I believe IRON GUARD members, ex or otherwise spent a lot of time keeping a low profile. He also stupidly states the name "P.GRANT" under the head of female Romania was a Romanian Minister!!! and we all know he was the designer of the medal. Medals found without the name were made in Germany. http://cgi.ebay.de/Orden-Kampf-gegen-den-K...1QQcmdZViewItem Point 1, the medal was never issued with swords, or any mention of swords on the Brevet or Urkunde. It would be like a German soldier adding swords to the "Frozen Flesh Medal". Now there is an original idea Point 2, No picture has ever emerged (to my knowledge) showing them worn in this fashion on either Romanian or German soldiers and until one comes to light this stays in the FANTASIA FILE. The only attachment to the ribbon were a number of Battle Bars. Kevin in Deva

REPUBLICIA POPULARA ROMINA / the Peoples Republic of Romania. 1947 - 1965. ROMANIAN ORDER OF MILITARY MERIT. 1954 ORDINUL MERITUL MILITAR CL. I, II, III. I Class, Gold wreath, Red enamel Star, words in Gold on Yellow background disc, Gold center motif, II Class, Silver wreath, Red enamel Star, words in Silver on Yellow background, Silver center motif, III Class, Bronze wreath, Red enamel Star, words in bronze on yellow background, Silver center motif. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Rick, Thanks for taking a look and thanks for the information on the "FIRE CROSS" sorry about the small picture, with the picture restriction this is the best I could do will try a scan and see what happens. the ink has stained at sometime the document was damp but its legibale in some areas when looked at close up. Above the signature the word Anna is clearly visable All we need now is a knowledgable Hungarian translator Kevin in Deva.

REPUBLICIA POPULARA ROMINA / the Peoples Republic of Romania. 1947 - 1965. ROMANIAN ORDER OF MILITARY MERIT. 1954 Obtained yesterday at a Collectors meeting in Brasov, Central Romania. ORDINUL MERITUL MILITAR CL. I, II, III. the difference in apperance being: I Class, Gold wreath, Red enamel Star, words in Gold on Yellow background disc, Gold center motif, II Class, Silver wreath, Red enamel Star, words in Silver on Yellow background, Silver center motif, III Class, Bronze wreath, Red enamel Star, words in bronze on yellow background, Silver center motif. All hang from a similar ribbon which appear to be original to the items, despite 3 classes of ribbons being denoted on the "lgaszewski website" as the first class having a single red stripe, second class with two red stripes and third class with three red stripes. Also noted on the website was the following information: 1. Until 1960s ribbons of Romanian orders and medals were 24-25 mm wide and folded pentagonally in the Russian manner. In 1960s the ribbons of new medals became straight, 35 mm in width. Still, when worn as ribbon bars only, there width was reduced to 24 mm as before. Kevin in Deva.

No the cross has not been faked because of its low value and many issues, but fake Siberia and Italia, very poor quality have been seen here at collectors meetings in Romania. Now I carry my digital camera to try and document these fake items. There is a big diference between a Reproduction and a Fake, repros can be authorised, fakes are just made to get big money for hard to find items, and are offered as the REAL item. Kevin in Deva

Hallo g_deploige, thank you for your information, do you know if any Belgian medals or orders were presented to either the King of Romania or the Romanian Government? I have a picture in my possesion which shows King Ferdinand wearing the French, Italian as well as the Romanian Cross of War. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Hendrik, glad to see you were able to obtain very good pictures of this item, and thanks to g_deploige as well. Seeing this was an official presentation from the Government of Romania I presume we can conclude that the "battle bars" are all official ones, with regards to style and shape of the letters and therefore any that differ are variations, with a slight possibility of some "repros" being offered for sale on the net. Now I wonder did the Romanian Government present similar to France, Great Britain, etc...etc... Kevin in Deva.

Rear of document and rear of cross

The cross.

Hallo Gentlemen, while attending a collectors fair in Brasov, central Romania I obtained the following; A Hungarian Horty "A HAZAERT 1942 Medal, I have heard these were issued to Hungarians serving with the SS also most were awarded Post-Mortem this cross has suffered a little damage in that the point of the left sword has broken off, it came complete with the original ribbon and a small document in Hungarian and I would be obliged for a translation, and an idea of value, the document bears a relief of the cross and is signed and stamped. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Gentlemen, I obtained a small brass buckle while at a collectors meeting in Brasov, central Romania which entailed a 700km round trip by train now before retiring for the night, as I have been on the go for about 40 hours no stop) I will post pictures here, 46mm height by 38mm wide, material brass, no maker marks, please see attachments. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Stogie, thanks for the kind comment its quite at home in my medal cabinet now.

Hallo Igor Great Bar Looks like the Legion of Honor is damaged as well, not uncommon for Romanian medal bars, they often got rough handeling during communist times, can you give me a little history on the bar please and can I see a picture of the reverse of the Romanian victory medal to detirmine which type it is? and what dates are to the rear of the Romanian Cross of War with the battlebars?? Kevin in Deva

Hallo Gentlemen Seller emailed me and sent some new pictures he also added some more pics to the auction, see: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6639207966&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:DE:1" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...ADME:L:RTQ:DE:1</a> along with the pictures in the email was this, Register on my new site www.militarycollectorsauction.com Thank you, Daren Broers Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s), are confidential, and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments from your system. Thank-you! Information confidentielle: Le present message, ainsi que tout fichier qui y est joint, est envoye a l'intention exclusive de son ou de ses destinataires; il est de nature confidentielle et peut constituer une information privilegiee. Nous avertissons toute personne autre que le destinataire prevu que tout examen, reacheminement, impression, copie, distribution ou toute autre utilisation de ce message et tout document joint est strictement interdit. Si vous n'etes pas le destinataire prevu, veuillez en aviser immediatement l'expediteur par retour de courriel et supprimer ce message et tout document joint de votre systeme. Merci! Kevin in Deva.