Tom D.

Hi guys, We are all obviously thinking the same thing, that it is odd that the SW68 logo is on a J2, however that doesn't automatically make this a reproduction, does it? It is an oddity, but that cannot be the only reason we have to totally dismiss this pilot badge, is it? I doubt there is anyone that can confidently say "the SW68 logo was NEVER applied to a J2 pilot badge". How can any of us be so sure of that? Lets ask another question, when did Juncker start using the SW68 logo? Or Disregarding the maker mark, can you fault this badge on anything else? Hardware, rivets, die characteristics, finish, etc. Tom

I like it, a textbook J2, with an overstamped IMME. I too have never seen this before, but looks legit and only confirms that IMME & Juncker indeed had a connection. Scott, I noticed the "68" as well, however we do know of tombak Luft flaks with the Juncker SW68 marking. Clearly this is not a typical Juncker badge as it is overstamped with IMME, and since we still don't really know when Juncker switched to using the SW68 marking an anomoly like this badge is plausible IMO. Tom

Interesting about the retouched photo Robin. That halo is indeed peculiar, I have never seen another CCC look like that in a photo. I must admit though that the rest of the clasp looks indeed like cloth, but that halo around it is VERY pecular. Robin, you say the EK is touched up too, how can you tell? As far as the ribbon bar goes, he would be wearing the ribbon like this whether he was wearing a typical CCC metal badge (or a cloth one). So the retouched image would simply remove the metal look of the clasp, and replace it with a cloth looking one. Tom

Hi guys, here are my comments from the GCA thread: William, this indeed is the best candidate I have ever seen for a cloth version of the CCC. Up to this point, there has been no photo ever found (except by Roger Honts, but he doctored that one up Unless the clasp is laying on the chest at a weird angle, I don't think this is a metal clasp due to the simple fact that the top and bottom edges of the CCC in the picture are much flatter than what you see on the metal clasps. The grooved arrow heads stick out pretty far from the center of the clasp and are quite distinct in photographs (see my picture attached). The circular area around the motif is also very interesting. If it is a metal clasp, these might be strings that were sown through the uniform to hold the clasp tight to the chest as the clasp tended to fall foward, and these may be distorting the look of the motif. Another example of this practice can be seen in my CCC book, page 139. There is no date of when Bochendorf was actually awarded the CCC in Gold, so my guess is that he DID NOT receive a Gold Presentation CCC which had the top hook, so he probably had a typical zink grade without tophook and would need string to hold the clasp firmly to the chest. If this is NOT string around the central motif and the picture is indeed that of a cloth badge in wear, then I have no explanation for the circular area. From a logical standpoint, a few things don't make sense: 1. If he prefered a cloth CCC, why would he be wearing the metal DK? Cloth DKs are well documented in photgraphs and must have been redily available to the front line soldiers as many CCC winners preferred these over the bulky metal ones as seen from the many photos of it in wear. Yet, he was able to find a CCC in cloth somehow, let alone it being a gold one. 2. Circluar area around the motif. There is no logical explanation for this, other than the strings I mentioned, which would NOT be needed for a cloth badge. 3. His ribbon bar is pushed off to the side. This is typical of soldiers that simply used the original ribbon bar loops to hold their CCC. If this was a cloth CCC that could be sown to the uniform, the logical thing would be to leave the ribbon bar where it was and sew the clasp above it, according to regs. The fact that he is wearing it improperly tells me it is not a simple mistake, but rather the convenience of using the original loops. These aren't conclusive, but make me wonder if we are looking at a metal clasp that is skewed in the picture to look weird. Very interesting picture indeed, thanks for showing William!! Tom

Hi CHE, Thanks for the pics. Do you own either one of these badges? There is a lot of solder there and I would bet that if you look real close, there would be a round plate under each one. I am not sure on this, but these pics are inconclusive for me to say for sure there is no plate. Tom

Excellent and VERY rare find Jan! The holy grail of the CCC collector!!! Congrats on a very rare find. I hope I am in your will my friend Tom

Hi guys, Does anyone else wonder why Juncker DID NOT mark their late-war zink 3rd pattern FJ badges? These are the ones with barrel hinge and oblong or round catchplate. I don't believe I have ever seen one of these with the Juncker maker mark, yet the obverse eagle and wreath design are identical to their tombak 2nd pattern badges (including the notch above the swastika). I don't really have a doubt that these are wartime badges, but its odd to me that they do not carry the Juncker maker mark. Does anyone have one of these from a vet grouping with good provenance? Thanks guys Tom

Hi CHE, Can you show some other badges where Meybauer DOES NOT use a round catchplate?? Would love to see these. Thanks Tom

Hi CHE, Very interesting indeed. OK, the wreath is a match to Meybauer's Para wreaths. Also, Maybauer rivets are usually recessed like this. And, the most conclusive for me is the offset hinge, where the barrel sits on 1 side of the little base more than the other side, which is also a typical feature of Maybauer barrel hinges. I am still wondering why there is absolutely no finish left at all, why it was never marked and why Meybauer didn't use a catchplate on this catch. That is NOT typical of Meybauer, especially not their para badges, they usually used a round catchplate IMO. Generally, I like the look of it. Tom

Its Sunday, where is the reverse !!!! Thanks Tom

Or from a reproduction Tom

You are mean sir! Tom

Hi Che, I know that Deschler never made LW badges that we know of, that is why I am so mystified by this bird. I cannot recall any maker with talons like this. B&NL AG/RO badges have pipples on the talons, but I can think of no other. Please reveal the reverse of this badge, it is literally killing me!!! Tom :wacky:

Hi Che, Also a mystery for me too, doesn't match any known pilot eagle. My guess would be Deschler. I see some saw cuts in the eagle's talons, which is very characteristic of other war badges by Deschler (CCCs in particular). Also, the pebbling of the eagles talons reminds me of Deschler IABs. Tom

Wow, very nice indeed! Excellent little collection, with some really nice and rare pieces. Tom

Hi Jan, Some really great and RARE badges. Nice score, but that seems to be common for you! Not sure about that last PAB, the hinge looks odd to me, no? Tom

Hi John, Great addition to your excellent collection! I always liked the B&NL paras, especially the ones with tombak eagle. Very nicely detailed and it looks like the swastika was burnished. Tom

Hi Jan, Great addition to your collection, love the finish! I too haven't been able to add many badges to my collection lately. Especially in the CCC realm, its been really slim pickings. Got any for sale?? Tom

Here is my book on the Close Combat Clasp. This was inspired by Frank's great GAB book and was done with the same tenacity and detail, and shows all the variants of each maker of the CCC. Each maker is methodically presented along with every respective variation produced. The seemingly endless variants of the enigmatic A.G.M.u.K. clasp are systematically and completely catalogued as well. Award cases, documents, miniatures and the variants of the elusive Gold Presentation Clasp are also studied and supplemented by many never seen photographs. Over 310 pages and 875 colour photographs.

Hi Jon, Indeed not an Assmann nor a Juncker (as you state on your website), but rather an unmarked S&L. S&L used very similar designs to Juncker on many badges, like their Heeres and Luftwaffe flaks and is evident on their FJs as well. If you study the eagles though, you will see differences, same thing with the wreaths. Similar designs, but totally different dies. Tom

Hi Nesredep, All of these look good. The unmarked Panzer is a nice early Wurster, and the ShuCo IAB looks good as well. Tom

Hi Jon, Indeed a nice original and textbook pilot badge, most likely made by FLL. Good luck with your FJ hunt, which one are you looking for? Tom

Hi Dan, Sorry, but in my opinion all of these are reproductions. The IAB is a very crude and poor fake. The 2 GABs are known as the "angry donald duck" fake, very common and well made, but still fake. The PAB is a decent copy of an original, but still some things wrong with the obverse design and reverse setup. Tom "The German Close Combat Clasp of WW2" - Book for sale www.papjay.com/order.html

Very nice John! An excellent Juncker IAB. Tom

Hi guys, Jock, I have to agree with Don here, my feeling is that it is a repro also. The material and ageing look artificial. The metal the badge is made of looks like a mix between nickel silver and zink. Details on the obverse are weak. I specifically do not like the looks of the hinge. Hinge looks like something you would find on a zink badge, but the catch (without a catch plate) is something you would find on a nickel silver or tombak badge. Philippe DeBock on the GermanCombatAwards.com forum is writing a book on these and is the most knowledgable PAB collection by far, I would register there and post it up for his opinion. Tom