Tom Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 **** Attn: Note from ChrisB.... I have caused CHAOS! but for a reason..... we had a few long lost threads about Alpenkorps which I have now merged. Down side is, sometimes it is not obvious to see which text goes with which item... but feel free to post questions... there were some really nice items posted and I decided it was worth the Chaos to not loose sight of those threads completely, thanks :-) Chris **** Good evening, Just started on this forum. A friend of mine already sendet me a lot of interesting topics so it was time for me to sine up. I just bought these shoulderstraps. I bought them as shoulderstraps of an major of the Bavarian Infanterie Leib regiment. Because of my spezial interest in the Alpenkorps and the part they played in the Battle of Verdun I bought them. Are their more people on this forum with an spezial interest in the Alpenkorps? greetings, Tom
Chip Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Tom,Welcome to the forum! I am very much interested in the Alpenkorps, especially the 3.J?ger Rgt.. I collect anything that I can find from either. I see your avatar is the collar insignia of the Ski battalions. I have a single example myself. I collect books, memorial prayer cards, postcards, photos, insignia and uniform parts when I can find them. One of my favorite possessions is an M84/98 bayonet marked to the 3.J?g.R.What are your interests and what do you collect? PM me if you like.Best regards,Chip
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Hi Tom...do you know this?http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9769
Tom Posted September 3, 2006 Author Posted September 3, 2006 Thank you for the fast reactions. My special interest in the Alpenkorps is their part in the Verdun attacks. That means the attacks on 23 and 11 july. I am at the moment busy trying to write a book on the attack on 11 july 1916 (attack on the fort of Souville). On my research I went this year to the Bavarian Military Archive in Munich. This was really amazing. About the 3. Jager Regiment. When I started studying them it became, as much in this hobby, somewhat of an obsession. My avatar is from this item sold at Hermanns Historica auction:
Chip Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Tom,Your Bavarian Infanterie Leib Rgt. boards are the M1916 type. Previous models had a red underlay. Here is another wartime subdued example from before the Spring of 1916.Chip
Glenn J Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 An M16 Oberleutnant's strap (Friedensrock) as illustrated in the extremely detailed work on Bavarian shoulder boards by Hermann Selzer.RegardsGlenn
Chip Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Glenn,Do you own that work by Selzer? I bought a copy from him back in the early 1980s. It covers just about everything you can think of regarding the officer's shoulder straps of the Bavarian army.Chip
Glenn J Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Hi Chip,yes, parts 1 -6. The lot I think.RegardsGlenn
Tom Posted September 5, 2006 Author Posted September 5, 2006 Hello,I think if I look closer at the crown that the part most down is different from the Infanterie Leib Regiment:Right is the type I mostly see in the literature I have. Does someone know what this difference means. Does it mean an other regiment or an other model of crown of the Leib regiment?
JensF. Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 I think this is just a makers variation. Like Iron Crosses where you have 10 different types from 5 different makers.
Chip Posted September 7, 2006 Posted September 7, 2006 Tom,I agree that they two crowns are a bit different. The bottom band has a different design. I also agree with Jens, that this is just a variation. If you look at Kraus's book, page 250, you will see another Infanterie Leib Regiment officer's board. Look at the crown. The lower band is just like mine (with the diamond shapes), not with the small dots on the band.Chip
Tom Posted September 7, 2006 Author Posted September 7, 2006 Thank you for the answers. The shoulderboards, later posted, indeed look like the board on page 250 of the book. The band of the crown is indeed with diamends and not points. Also the upper cross on the crown is higher than the crown and not directly attached to it.The same crowns are on;1. The feldgrauer Waffenrock fur Offiziere M1910page 150, 279 2. Waffenrock zur feldgrauen Friedensrock M1915page 1603. Bayerische einheitsmantel fur Offiziere M1916page 1974. Waffenrock M1916 fur offiziere page 282Are their any known variations in the crowns of the Leibregiment? Are the boards I posted for sure Bavarian and could they be Bavarian but from an other regiment? For what kind uniform are these boards; active or Friedens?
dwmosher Posted September 9, 2006 Posted September 9, 2006 TomYour boards are definately M-1916 Bavarian for the field; not for the Kleinerrock or Friedensrock which would also be piped white but with the bright silver and blue cording. I would think the crown is just a variation. This is a M-1916 Infantrie Leib Regiment board typically used for the Kleinerrock or Friedensrock but was strangely used for a field uniform.Dave
Tom Posted September 9, 2006 Author Posted September 9, 2006 Dave,Thank you for the information. I think indeed this must be an variation of the crown of the Infanterie Leib Regiment. I looked closer at some other crowns and variations on the shoulderboards. The one to come most close is the one of the Prussian Husaren.
Tom Posted September 11, 2006 Author Posted September 11, 2006 Model 16? Exactly what you search Tom. Yep, you know me to well, haha I had an discussion with an fellowfriend and collector yesterday and we came to the conclusion that: 1. the shoulderboards are absolutely good (feel, smel, touch etc.); 2. they are infanterie (white under it); 3. they are Bavarian (blue stripes);4. the crown is an Prussian one.The last conclusion is most interesting because of the boards being bavarian. What often happened he told me is that Prussian fabrics made stuff for the Bavarians and way around. That means basecly that they used what they could find and what looked like it.Also interesting is the difference between the Bavarian crown and the Prussian one which can even been seen on the Pickelhaube. The crown of Prussia has under points and the Bavarian one stripe diamant stripe etc. The Prussian crown has an cross directly attached to the point of the crown and the Bavarian one has the cross above the point.
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 to "cover" the Bavarian J?gers....First off... a Reserve officer who served in the 2nd J?ger Batln....
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 The officer that wore the Tschako pictured fought in the Tirol, Serbia and Verdun before transfering to the 31 Bavarian Inf regt.
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Already in the Tirol in 1915 the Tschakos lost ground to field hats, in 1916 they fell away to the Steelhelmet and I assume were only worn back home on leave or on duty away from the front...This hat, from the stamps, was issued in late August 1916 to the J?gers of the Alpenkorps who were resting anf refitting in the XVI Korps sector after suffering tremendous losses at Verdun...
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Finally, the visor hat that with the exception of some microscopic moth damage is a mint one.Apparently the fact that it still has its stiffening wire and does not have the floppy "field" turned a couple of buyers away.In a way I would have prefered the Field look as well, I guess this one spent the war in a Cupboard as the wearing traces are very minimal....
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Basically the same hat without the stiffener and a slight "crush" added...Apparently the style most collectors look for ;-)
Chip Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Chris,As you can imagine, I am extremely jealous of your Bavarian J?ger headgear, as that is what my beloved 3.J?g.Rgt. (at least the two Bavarian battalions) would have been wearing by some time in 1917. All are outstanding pieces. If I had the money, I would have been fighting you for them. Such is life. Congratulations. Just stay away from the 3.J?g.Rgt. and I won't have to hurt you. Chip
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 I will leave the 3rd well alone :-)The first is where my heart is.... I had to move a bit of nice stuff to get these, me be a happy boy indeed... :-)
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Would still be interested to see if the 3rd did indeed wear the Tschacko or if the pic you posted was an officer who transfered in...From what i can see, in 1915 the Bavarian J?gers of the Alpenkorps lost the Tschako, wearing field hats in the Tirol and Serbia. Then steel helmets and floppy hats from 1916 on. I would imagine the Tschako was worn back in Germany and in the ersatz Batln.The 3rd Regt was created during the war in a time when the "classic" J?gers were getting rid of the Tschako....Is there a history of the 3rd with pics in it?BestChris
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