France Croix du Combattant Volontaire

[Christophe]

Found this cross yesterday in a local fleamarket in Paris.

This seems to be the version of the "Croix du Combattant Volontaire", instituted on 8 September 1981. This new type (and cross) followed the "1939-1945" one, that was discontinued since 1970.

3 clasps have been instituted : "Guerre 1939-1945", "Indochine" and "Cor?e".

Mine has never got any clasp or bar.

Does it mean it has never been awarded ? Or, as far as you know, are there crosses awarded without bar (what I doubt...) ?

I've not found a lot of information about this recent cross...

Here is the front of the cross.

Thanks in advance.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

Reverse of the cross.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have seen ex Legionnaires wearing this with service from the 80s-90s. I thought they were just wearing this because they thought they were entitled to it, but were not?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here for example... there is a belgian Email address for him, so you can ask

http://www.amicale-online.ca/modules.php?n...ent&tid=251

[Christophe]

I have seen ex Legionnaires wearing this with service from the 80s-90s. I thought they were just wearing this because they thought they were entitled to it, but were not?

Ooops ... I forgot to mention the clasp "Afrique du Nord", instituted on 20 April 1988...

There are in total 4 clasps :

* Guerre 1939-1945

* Indochine

* Cor?e

* Afrique du Nord.

Ch.

[Christophe]

Here for example... there is a belgian Email address for him, so you can ask

http://www.amicale-online.ca/modules.php?n...ent&tid=251

Interesting pic, as it shows the medal without clasp. And for sure this medal has really been awarded to this Caporal-Chef!!!! There is no doubt...

This is a first answer to my question!!!

Thanks.

Ch.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Interesting pic, as it shows the medal without clasp. And for sure this medal has really been awarded to this Caporal-Chef!!!! There is no doubt...

This is a first answer to my question!!!

Thanks.

Ch.

Shoot him a mail and ask the exact criteria..

Is the photo taken while in service or after he left the legion? maybe he thinks he is entitled to it, but is not?

i to am curious.

[Christophe]

I'll check this with him, because it is not said in the official texts if the medal can be awarded to combattants who took part to other conflicts than the four of the clasps.

Ch.

[Christophe]

A debate has been recently opened by the FNCV (F?d?ration Nationale des Combattants Volontaires - National Federation of Voluntary Servicemen).

They are militing for the creation of a new clasp for youger generations who fought in more recent conflicts : "Mission Ext?rieure" (Overseas Mission).

The subject has been dealt at the French Senate on 13 January 2004, where Mrs Alliot-Marie, the French Minister of Defense said she was ready to launch a study about this option.

Here is the full text (in French) :

http://www.fncv.com/biblio/temoignages/div...13-01-2004.html

Ch.

Edited September 10, 2006 by Christophe

[Christophe]

More recently, on 7 March 2006, Eric Woerth, ex-Minister, Oise Department Deputy, a Defense Parlementary Commisssion member, raised again the question.

Mrs Alliot Marie, said the study had been conducted and allowed to see exactly how many people could get this medal. Only a few enlisted soldiers were concerned (this was one of the criteria for launching the study). Consequently, the criteria for awarding the Voluntary Combattant card are being re-studied. To be followed...

Ch.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello readers:

I have before me my Carte du Combattant issued by the Office National Des Anciens Combattants Et Victimes De La Guerre with date of 8.Oct. 1987. On the reverse of the carte the "old style " medal is shown and the remark "Croix du Combattant. The titulaire de la presente carte est authorise, conformement aux dispositions du decret du 24 aout 1930a porter les insignes de Croix du Combattant" . No mention of clasps is made. The issuing office was aware of my active service from 1951 to 1957 with two tours in Indochina and service in Marocco and Algeria.

One would think that by 1987 the current nomenclature would have been used ??

Bernhard H. Holst

[Christophe]

Hi Bernhard,

Is your medal the "Croix du Combattant" (what I think here) or the "Croix du Combattant Volontaire" ?

Could you post a scan of the card (delete any name if you wish) ?

Thanks.

Ch.

[PKeating]

La Croix du Combattant Voluntaire de 1939-1945 was created on 1.2.1953. According to my sources, the dates were supressed after this issue of the cross was awarded for Korea. I cannot find any reference anywhere to clasps for this decoration or to its suppression in 1970. Are you sure that the clasps to which you refer were not intended for service medals? There is no tradition of clasps - barettes - being worn on the ribands of French valour and war service crosses.

Above, just for interest's sake, is a 1939-1945 issue in a group to WW1 veteran who fought in the 1939-1940 war as a volunteer and then, as you can see, in the Resistance before he was deported to a concentration camp. He survived.

Below is a group to a professional soldier who served in the Far East during WW2 with the FFL and went on to serve in Indo-China and then, as the Valour Cross with the citational stars shows, in Algeria. Note that he has the small, so-called FFL version of the Colonial Medal with the clasp for the Far East. In fact, he got his clasps the wrong way around: the Indochine clasp - which relates to his WW2 service - should have been on the Colonial Medal while the Extreme-Orient should have been on the 1939-1945 War Commemorative Medal. Note too that French personnel in Indo-China in the early 1950s received a medal dedicated to that conflict. His Colonial Medal should also have the Algeria clasp but he never got it and never bothered sending off for it afterwards.

The point is that les barettes were instituted for campaign and colonial service medals and, latterly, the Overseas Service Medal, instituted in 1962 to replace the Colonial Medal. The only add-ons one sees on the ribands of crosses are Palm leaves and Stars. I tend to believe that veterans of WW2, Indo-China, Korea and later conflicts might have acquired unofficial clasps or clasps intended for other medals and affixed them to their crosses for wear at reunions and commemorative events but these conflicts were all recognised by official campaign medals and clasps. I would be very interested in seeing any official orders referring to clasps for the undated Volunteer Combattant's Cross as issued after the Korean War.

PK

[Paul R]

Prosper,

Thanks for sharing your great displays. Did you get to meet the WW1 vet? His life experiences I bet were really something.

[Christophe]

La Croix du Combattant Voluntaire de 1939-1945 was created on 1.2.1953. According to my sources, the dates were supressed after this issue of the cross was awarded for Korea. I cannot find any reference anywhere to clasps for this decoration or to its suppression in 1970. Are you sure that the clasps to which you refer were not intended for service medals? There is no tradition of clasps - barettes - being worn on the ribands of French valour and war service crosses. (...)

The 1939-1945 cross has been discontinued on 31 September 1970. But a decree of 21 September 1976 came back on this decision.

The law of 4 February 1953 instituing the Croix du Combattant Volontaire "1939-1945" has been abrogated (cancelled) by the decree of 8 September 1981, that created the new Croix du Combattant Volontaire.

On this occasion (8 September 1981) have been instituted the 3 first clasps (or barrettes).

The "1939-1945" has been instituted by decree 81-845.

The "Indochine" by decree 81-846.

The "Afrique du Nord" by decree 81-847.

You're correct when you say "There is no tradition of clasps - barettes - being worn on the ribands of French valour and war service crosses", but these, with the new cross of 1981, theorically exist.

I have to say I would be pleased to see one of them. They are supposed to be in white (silver type) steel. They certainly have been issued. Maybe a Member has a pic ?

Ch.

[Christophe]

(...)

The point is that les barettes were instituted for campaign and colonial service medals and, latterly, the Overseas Service Medal, instituted in 1962 to replace the Colonial Medal. The only add-ons one sees on the ribands of crosses are Palm leaves and Stars. I tend to believe that veterans of WW2, Indo-China, Korea and later conflicts might have acquired unofficial clasps or clasps intended for other medals and affixed them to their crosses for wear at reunions and commemorative events but these conflicts were all recognised by official campaign medals and clasps. I would be very interested in seeing any official orders referring to clasps for the undated Volunteer Combattant's Cross as issued after the Korean War.

PK

They are planned in the official texts. We have just to check if they have really been produced...

Very nice group BTW...

Ch.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hi Bernhard,

Is your medal the "Croix du Combattant" (what I think here) or the "Croix du Combattant Volontaire" ?

Could you post a scan of the card (delete any name if you wish) ?

Thanks.

Ch.

Hello Christophe.

As mentioned the Carte du Combattant issued to me lists that I am entitled to wear the "Croix du Combattant" not the Croix du Combattant Volontaire.

I was not given the corresponding medal since this came about in connection with my filing for the French Social Security allotment and two other compensations for prior service. Unfortunately I do not have the capability to post images or e-mail attachments .

Bernhard H. Holst

[PKeating]

No Paul, I regret to say that I never had the privilege of meeting the man whose group is the first I posted. Nor did I meet the second man although I acquired the medals from his nephew.

Thank you for your remarks, Christophe. ?a me pla?t que vous aimez ces deux groupements de d?cos et m?dailles. I suppose I had better continue in English as this is an anglophone site! I will ask Arthus Bertrand about the clasps, and also Marie Stuart, in the Palais Royale. Thank you very much for posting the information about the order of 8.9.1981. Fascinating!

Bernhard, you can wear the cross if entitled to do so. As far as I know, you can make an application to the ministry but it is usually much quicker just to buy it from one of the shops in Paris, like the ones I mentioned! I just purchased several French decorations and medals for Patrick Churchill, head of the Commando Veterans' Assocation, who served with N? 4 (French) Commando in 1944 and 1945. There were a couple he didn't even know he was entitled to wear!

PK

[Christophe]

(...) No mention of clasps is made. (...)

Bernhard H. Holst

Bernhard,

The Croix du Combattant is the attached cross... which never had any clasp. I think your medal is this one.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Bernhard, you can wear the cross if entitled to do so. As far as I know, you can make an application to the ministry but it is usually much quicker just to buy it from one of the shops in Paris, like the ones I mentioned!

Not so easy....

I have applied for the Crois du combattant as I know a few of the guys I served with applied for them some years ago recieved the award certificate/Card than allows them to wear it... but after half a year of waiting I telephoned... to hear that the statutes are being reworked and my award is on ice... if at all.

Bernhard has the card for the Classic Croix du Combattant. You get the card... but have to buy the medal. The cross for the Volunteer Combattant, i.e. the subject of the thread, is something different.

I am holding thumbs for "the classic" as Bernhard has...

[Christophe]

(...) Thank you for your remarks, Christophe. ?a me pla?t que vous aimez ces deux groupements de d?cos et m?dailles. I suppose I had better continue in English as this is an anglophone site! I will ask Arthus Bertrand about the clasps, and also Marie Stuart, in the Palais Royale. Thank you very much for posting the information about the order of 8.9.1981. Fascinating! (...) PK

Paul,

Please, keep us informed of what you find...

Cheers.

Ch.

[Christophe]

I found this pic (not so clear if it is a drawing or a pic...) on a Legion Etrang?re website. Barette "Afrique du Nord".

Ch.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello:

Thanks to all who have responded to this topic.

It seems that the one in question (for me at least) is the one P. Keating and Christophe showed i.e . skyblue with seven narrow red stripes .

Bernhard H. Holst

[Christophe]

Bernhard,

"Your" cross is a very nice one, instituted in 1930, a few years after the creation of the Carte du Combattant (1926).

Cheers.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

And here's one with the bar for the Korean War.

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