Heer H Himmler

[pikestaff]

Good afternoon gentlemen, just read Himmler's biography, but cannot make out all the medals on his bar, anyone know for sure??

thanks

Pikestaff

[Thierry]

Bonjour,

Himmler's awards list :

- Kriegsdenkm?nze 1914/18 des Kyffh?user-Bundes (18 mars 1922),

- Deutsche Ehrendenkm?nze des Weltkrieges am Schwarzweissroten Bande (20 d?cembre 1922),

- SS Zivilabzeichen Nr 2,

- N?rnberger Parteiabzeichen 1929,

- Braunschweig 1931 Teilnehmerabzeichen,

- Goldenes Parteiabzeichen (1934),

- Blut Orden Nr 3 (11 juin 1934),

- Julleuchter d. SS (16 d?cembre 1935),

- SA Sportabzeichen in Bronze,

- DRL Sportabzeichen in Bronze,

- Deutsche Olympia Ehrenzeichen 1. kl (1936),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell?Ordine della Corona d?Italia (20 avril 1937),

- Luftschutz Ehrenzeichen 1. kl (1938),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell?Ordine dei Santi Maurizio e. Lazzaro (18 octobre 1938),

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13 M?rz 1938,

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1 Oktober 1938 mit Spange ?Prager Burg?,

- SS Dienstauszeichnung 12 jahr (1939),

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den Heimkehr des Memellandes (20 mars 1939),

- Grosskreuz d. Spanischen Ordens von Joch u. dem Pfeilen (mai 1939),

- Westwall (1939),

- Goldene Plakette des Deutschen Ausland-Instituts (7 octobre 1940),

- Ehrenplakette f?r die Mitglieder des Reichs-Kultur-Senats,

- Goldenes HJ Ehrenzeichen mit Eichenlaub,

- Gemeinsames Flugzeugf?hrer und Beobachterabzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten (juillet 1942),

- Grosskreuz Finnische Orden des Freiheitskreuz mit Schwertern (30 juillet1942),

- Grosskreuz Finnische Orden von d. weissen Rose Finnlands (1942),

- Grosskreuz Slowakische Orden d. F?rsten Pribina (mars 1943),

- Grosskreuz des Kroatische des Orden d. Krone K?nig Zvonimirs mit Eichenlaub (mai 1943),

- Gau Ehrenzeichen Wartheland (24 octobre 1943),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell?Ordine Militare di Savoia,

- Gro?kreuz des Ordens d. Krone von Jugoslawien,

- Dienstauszeichnung d. NSDAP in Silber.

Crdl

Thierry

[Paul R]

He loved his medals, didnt he!

[Henry 24th]

What?

No EK 1 or 2!

No RK? How did that happen? Clearly the man was ripped off

Henry

[Guest Rick Research]

Other than risking having his exquisitely tailored uniform splattered by the blood of the theatrically arranged victims of the one public mass execution he attended during the war, he was never in any "danger" and apparently had enough sense of shame to deliberately not award-hog for things his subordinates would have sneered at him over.

AFTER the Nazi "Final Victory," who knows what a grateful F?hrer might have bestowed on him for his "services?" I suspect too that he was angling for something "worthy" of the very summit of the Nazi hierarchy and didn't want to face the awkwardness of having to go through the steps of KVK2-up and so on like a Mere Mortal.

[TerryG]

I'd like to see all these medals and awards fit on his little chest. Anyone got a photo they can post? This is the only I could find.

[pikestaff]

Bonjour,

Himmler's awards list :

- Kriegsdenkm?nze 1914/18 des Kyffh?user-Bundes (18 mars 1922),

- Deutsche Ehrendenkm?nze des Weltkrieges am Schwarzweissroten Bande (20 d?cembre 1922),

- SS Zivilabzeichen Nr 2,

- N?rnberger Parteiabzeichen 1929,

- Braunschweig 1931 Teilnehmerabzeichen,

- Goldenes Parteiabzeichen (1934),

- Blut Orden Nr 3 (11 juin 1934),

- Julleuchter d. SS (16 d?cembre 1935),

- SA Sportabzeichen in Bronze,

- DRL Sportabzeichen in Bronze,

- Deutsche Olympia Ehrenzeichen 1. kl (1936),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell?Ordine della Corona d?Italia (20 avril 1937),

- Luftschutz Ehrenzeichen 1. kl (1938),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell?Ordine dei Santi Maurizio e. Lazzaro (18 octobre 1938),

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13 M?rz 1938,

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1 Oktober 1938 mit Spange ?Prager Burg?,

- SS Dienstauszeichnung 12 jahr (1939),

- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den Heimkehr des Memellandes (20 mars 1939),

- Grosskreuz d. Spanischen Ordens von Joch u. dem Pfeilen (mai 1939),

- Westwall (1939),

- Goldene Plakette des Deutschen Ausland-Instituts (7 octobre 1940),

- Ehrenplakette f?r die Mitglieder des Reichs-Kultur-Senats,

- Goldenes HJ Ehrenzeichen mit Eichenlaub,

- Gemeinsames Flugzeugf?hrer und Beobachterabzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten (juillet 1942),

- Grosskreuz Finnische Orden des Freiheitskreuz mit Schwertern (30 juillet1942),

- Grosskreuz Finnische Orden von d. weissen Rose Finnlands (1942),

- Grosskreuz Slowakische Orden d. F?rsten Pribina (mars 1943),

- Grosskreuz des Kroatische des Orden d. Krone K?nig Zvonimirs mit Eichenlaub (mai 1943),

- Gau Ehrenzeichen Wartheland (24 octobre 1943),

- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell?Ordine Militare di Savoia,

- Gro?kreuz des Ordens d. Krone von Jugoslawien,

- Dienstauszeichnung d. NSDAP in Silber.

Crdl

Thierry

Many thanks, pikestaff

[Thierry]

What?

No EK 1 or 2!

No RK? How did that happen? Clearly the man was ripped off

Henry

Bonjour,

Himmler not a soldier (military), it's political soldier

Reichsf?hrer SS

Heinrich Luitpold Dipl Landwirt HIMMLER

N? le 7 octobre 1900 ? Munich, rejoint le K?niglich Bayerische 11. IR ?von der Tann? (23 d?cembre 1917-15 septembre 1918), Fahnenjunker (2 janvier 1918), Korporal (mai 1918), sert ? la 17. MG Kie, affect? ? la 4./Ersatz Btn/K?niglich Bayerische 11. IR ?von der Tann? (1er octobre-17 d?cembre 1918), n?est pas envoy? au front, rejoint la Reserve Kie/Freikorps Oberland (avril-ao?t 1919), fait des ?tudes d?agriculture, sert ? la 11. Alarm Kie/21. Sch?tzen Brigade (4 novembre 1919-mai 1920), F?hnrich a.D (1er d?cembre 1921), ing?nieur agronome le 5 ao?t 1922, adh?re au NSDAP (42404) le 1er ao?t 1923, sert dans la Reichswehr ? la 4./I./IR Nr 19 (15 septembre-8 novembre 1923), rejoint le Reichskriegsflagge le 17 octobre 1923, lors du putsch de Munich porte le reichskriegsflagge et participe ? la prise du minist?re de la guerre bavarois, Sekret?r u. stellv des Gauleiters d. NSFB Grogor STRASSER (juillet 1924-1925), r?inscrit au NSDAP (14303) et rejoint la SS (168) le 2 ao?t 1925, stellv Gauleiter u. Gaugesch?ftsf?hrer des Gaues Niederbayern d. NSDAP (1926-janvier 1929), Gau SS F?hrer Niederbayern (1926-1927), stellv des Reichspropagandaleiters d. NSDAP (12 septembre 1926-27 avril 1930), stellv RF SS (1er mars 1927-6 janvier 1929), mari? ? Margarette BODEN le 3 juillet 1928, 1 fille, s?occupe d?une exploitation de poulet pr?s de Munich, RF SS (6 janvier 1929-28 avril 1945), d?put? au Reichstages (14 septembre 1930-4 juin 1932), SS GRUF (1er mai 1931), d?put? au Reichstages (31 juillet-12 septembre 1932)(6 novembre 1932-1er f?vrier 1933), SS OGRUF (15 d?cembre 1932), d?put? au Reichstages (5 mars-14 octobre 1933), Preussischer Staatsrat (10 juillet 1933-28 avril 1945), d?put? au Reichstages (12 novembre 1933-28 avril 1945), Reichsleiter d. NSDAP (20 juillet 1934-28 avril 1945), RF SS (20 juillet 1934), Polizeipr?sident von Munich (octobre 1934-31 mars 1936), Chef d. Deutschen Polizei (17 juin 1936-28 avril 1945), Vertreter des Generalbevollm?chtigten f?r die Reichsverwaltung (12 septembre 1939-24 ao?t 1943), Reichkommissar f?r RKF (7 octobre 1939-28 avril 1945), divorce en 1940, vit avec sa secr?taire Hedwig POTTHAST, 2 enfants, Reichs u. Preussisminister des Innern (25 ao?t 1943-28 avril 1945), Chef d. Heeresr?stung u. Befehlshaber des Ersatzheeres (20 juillet-ao?t 1944), Chef d. Heeresr?stung u. OB des Ersatzheeres jusqu?au 28 avril 1945, Befehlshaber F?hrungsstab Nordsee (13 septembre 1944-25 f?vrier 1945), Chef des Kriegsgefangenenwesens (1er octobre 1944-28 avril 1945), OB Oberrhein RF SS (2 d?cembre 1944-23 janvier 1945), prend contact avec les alli?s, par l?interm?diaire du Graf FOLKE-BERNADOTTE, destitu? de toutes ses fonctions par HITLER pour trahison, arr?t? le 21 mai par les Anglais ? Bremerhaven, se suicide le 23 mai 1945 ? L?neburg avec une capsule de cyanure, lors d?un interrogatoire.

Thierry

[Deruelle]

Hi,

You can find more info from this link.

http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/

Regards

Christophe

[David S]

For what it's worth

A scan from an Angolia book stating this was HH's bar

Edited February 15, 2007 by David S

[PKeating]

Just to add to Rick's post, Himmler fainted when he witnessed an Einsatzgruppe mass-execution by machinegun. That said, he displayed courage during the 1923 Putsch, holding aloft the standard - later revered as the Blutfahne - in the face of rifle and pistol fire from the policemen trying to prevent the marchers' progress in front of the Feldherrnhalle. He was also a volunteer during the First World War, although he had not finished his officer training when the armistice came into effect. Himmler would undoubtedly have received the Knight's Cross of the War Service Cross at some point, along with the two lesser classes at the same time. He might also have been given that hideous-looking neck order whose name I can't remember right now, the one with the facsimile Golden Party Badge in the middle of some sort of cross. There is also no reason why he would not have been given a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross too, given his leadership of the Waffen-SS. They would have had to award him the EK2 and EK1 at the same time. And then he would also have been eligible for the DKiS and maybe even the DKiG.

PK

[Max Williams]

Just to add to Rick's post, Himmler fainted when he witnessed an Einsatzgruppe mass-execution by machinegun. That said, he displayed courage during the 1923 Putsch, holding aloft the standard - later revered as the Blutfahne - in the face of rifle and pistol fire from the policemen trying to prevent the marchers' progress in front of the Feldherrnhalle. He was also a volunteer during the First World War, although he had not finished his officer training when the armistice came into effect. Himmler would undoubtedly have received the Knight's Cross of the War Service Cross at some point, along with the two lesser classes at the same time. He might also have been given that hideous-looking neck order whose name I can't remember right now, the one with the facsimile Golden Party Badge in the middle of some sort of cross. There is also no reason why he would not have been given a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross too, given his leadership of the Waffen-SS. They would have had to award him the EK2 and EK1 at the same time. And then he would also have been eligible for the DKiS and maybe even the DKiG.

PK

Paddy,

I have to question your post here.

Himmler became unsteady on his feet when some human brain matter splashed on his boots at an Einsatzkommando Aktion. Karl Wolff helped him to steady his footing, but he did not faint or pass out.

Himmler was not at the Feldherrnhalle in November 1923 and did not carry the Blood Flag. He did not come under fire from the police units trying to stop the marchers. He was at the War Ministry with Ernst R?hm and was carrying the Imperial War Flag of the Reichs-Kriegsflagge.

Himmler could not possibly have been considered for the Knights Cross as this was a frontline award for exceptional service. The nearest Himmler got to the front was as an Army Group commander in the latter stages of the war. He never came under fire and his lack of qualities as a frontline commander were rapidly exposed and he was replaced. The EK2 and EK1 were both awards for bravery under fire. As he never came under fire, it was have been impossible for him to receive a bravery award. He could not possibly have been awarded the DKiG and the only possibility of the DKiS disappeared when he displayed a total lack of leadership qualities as an Army Group commander.

Max.

[octave]

All that being said he rose from humble chicken farmer to one of the most fear men in germany, pretty impressive in its own way.

[Max Williams]

All that being said he rose from humble chicken farmer to one of the most fear men in germany, pretty impressive in its own way.

Oh don't get me wrong; this guy was a highly intelligent man and a brilliant organiser. He was just no military tactician. Although not agreeing with his methods, one must admire the way he cleverly gained control of the German Police system.

Max.

[Guest WAR LORD]

For PK, "He might also have been given that hideous-looking neck order whose name I can't remember right now, the one with the facsimile Golden Party Badge in the middle of some sort of cross". This was the German Order. It seems he was considered for this, but Hitler was displeased, possibly because he suspected Himmlers intentions in the last months of the war.

[Gordon Williamson]

Himmler could not possibly have been considered for the Knights Cross as this was a frontline award for exceptional service.

Not quite true, the Knight's Cross was awarded to many senior commanders for leadership. Grossadmiral Raeder commanded ships far out at sea from a base in Berlin. He was never effectively in the "front line".

There were also other examples of senior SS officers receiving the Knight's Cross for achievements which were little more than mass murder (Dirlewanger and Jaeckeln come to mind)

The EK2 and EK1 were both awards for bravery under fire. As he never came under fire, it was have been impossible for him to receive a bravery award.

Not so. The EK could be awarded for simple things like taking part in a successful recce patrol - no combat bravery under fire was required.

Technically, Himmler could have been awarded the Knight's Cross, I just don't think Hitler ever considered him a suitable recipient. If he had, the rules would have allowed it, and even if they didn't could easily have been bent by the "man at the top". There were precedences though, for Hitler making it clear that he didn't want certain senior figures (specifically people like Goering) trying to add ever more awards to thier list of "achievments"

[Max Williams]

Not quite true, the Knight's Cross was awarded to many senior commanders for leadership. Grossadmiral Raeder commanded ships far out at sea from a base in Berlin. He was never effectively in the "front line".

There were also other examples of senior SS officers receiving the Knight's Cross for achievements which were little more than mass murder (Dirlewanger and Jaeckeln come to mind)

Not so. The EK could be awarded for simple things like taking part in a successful recce patrol - no combat bravery under fire was required.

Technically, Himmler could have been awarded the Knight's Cross, I just don't think Hitler ever considered him a suitable recipient. If he had, the rules would have allowed it, and even if they didn't could easily have been bent by the "man at the top". There were precedences though, for Hitler making it clear that he didn't want certain senior figures (specifically people like Goering) trying to add ever more awards to thier list of "achievments"

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Dirlewanger saw active service in numerous anti-partisan actions and Jeckeln also saw active service on a number of occasions as commander of various Kampfgruppe. Jeckeln was awarded the RK for personally leading a successful counter attack on 16 August 1944 in Latvia where he displayed not only personal bravery, but leadership qualities. He was also awarded the DKiG.

"Simple...recce patrols," as you call them, were nevertheless at the front and to be awarded the EK, there would have been an element of danger.

Senior commanders awarded the RK (such as Raeder) were all men who displayed leadership and tactical qualities and who issued direct orders as tactical commanders. Himmler had no personal tactical control over his W-SS commanders until he was given command of an Army Group late in the war and this lasted for a matter of weeks. Nearly all his W-SS commanders were under the orders of a local Army Group commander, not Himmler.

Max.

[Gordon Williamson]

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Dirlewanger saw active service in numerous anti-partisan actions and Jeckeln also saw active service on a number of occasions as commander of various Kampfgruppe. Jeckeln was awarded the RK for personally leading a successful counter attack on 16 August 1944 in Latvia where he displayed not only personal bravery, but leadership qualities. He was also awarded the DKiG.

"Simple...recce patrols," as you call them, were nevertheless at the front and to be awarded the EK, there would have been an element of danger.

Senior commanders awarded the RK (such as Raeder) were all men who displayed leadership and tactical qualities and who issued direct orders as tactical commanders. Himmler had no personal tactical control over his W-SS commanders until he was given command of an Army Group late in the war and this lasted for a matter of weeks. Nearly all his W-SS commanders were under the orders of a local Army Group commander, not Himmler.

Max.

Article 2 of the foundation order of September 1939 merely states that the Iron Cross (and this applies to all grades)will be awarded for outstanding service by military personnel or bravery in the face of the enemy. No mention of

"tactical qualities" or "issuing direct orders as tactical commanders". The rules would quite clearly have allowed Hitler to have approved the award of the Iron Cross to any member of military personnel he saw fit on the basis of what was considered by him, as the final authority, as "outstanding service".

Your statement,-

The EK2 and EK1 were both awards for bravery under fire. As he never came under fire, it was have been impossible for him to receive a bravery award.

is is still wrong. The EK was NOT just a bravery award and could theoretically have been awarded on the basis of "outstanding service".

The fact that murdering scum like Dirlewanger and Jaeckeln got the Knight's Cross just shows how low the "standards " could at times fall. Had Hitler wished to make the award to Himmler, he could have.

[Max Williams]

Article 2 of the foundation order of September 1939 merely states that the Iron Cross (and this applies to all grades)will be awarded for outstanding service by military personnel or bravery in the face of the enemy. No mention of

"tactical qualities" or "issuing direct orders as tactical commanders". The rules would quite clearly have allowed Hitler to have approved the award of the Iron Cross to any member of military personnel he saw fit on the basis of what was considered by him, as the final authority, as "outstanding service".

Your statement,-

is is still wrong. The EK was NOT just a bravery award and could theoretically have been awarded on the basis of "outstanding service".

The fact that murdering scum like Dirlewanger and Jaeckeln got the Knight's Cross just shows how low the "standards " could at times fall. Had Hitler wished to make the award to Himmler, he could have.

Gordon,

You haven't read my post. I have not stated that the EK was awarded for tactical qualities.

You now revert to supposition or theory. What actual instances of the award for non-active service can you quote?

Oh dear; you cannot accept that even criminals can be brave at times, notwithstanding some of their less admirable actions. And by the way, it's Jeckeln, not Jaeckeln.

I think we'll just agree to differ.

Max.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Max Williams

[Harvey]

Here's the picture - with Himmler holding the Imperial Standard.

-Dave

p.s. Not gettin' into the argument about who can get what awards...

[Max Williams]

Dave,

Thanks for posting the picture.

It's not an argument...more a difference of opinion.

Max.

[Gordon Williamson]

It's not an argument...more a difference of opinion.

Max.

Absolutely !

Such hypothetical discussions will always generate opposing opinions. Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debating and certainly no ill feelings on my part.

[Max Williams]

Absolutely !

Such hypothetical discussions will always generate opposing opinions. Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debating and certainly no ill feelings on my part.

Well said. I agree.

Max.