Soviet What has happenned to the Soviet Order?

JimZ · October 31, 2006

We are all busy collecting soviet awards and sharing info on our beloved pieces. But for some of us like myself, time stood still in 1991. Although I like to keep a broad view when collecting I absolutely draw the line at 1991 with no collecting interest in awards after that date.

However, I do find myself asking - What has happened to the Order of the Patriotic War, Order of Red Star, Order of Nevsky, Order of Red Banner (labour and military), Order of Honour, Order of Lenin..... for crying out loud! Are Ushakov, Naxhimov and Khmelnitsky still "heros" honoured by being protrayed on modern day Russian Federation awards. Or did our beloved orders these die a natural death and cease to exist? Have they been replaced in the same manner as the HSU was. And what about the HSL title and star? Also, what transitional pieces if any were issued after the fall of communism...

Can anyone throw any light on this topic? Any owners of transitional pieces or New Russian Federation orders out there....

Jim

Christian Zulus · October 31, 2006

Dear Jim,

very interesting topic!

I have read somewhere, that in the 1990s the new Russian authorities & mint still confered genuine Soviet orders & medals to veterans, who had not yet received their awards.

Is there any evidence about that?

What about veterans, who lived outside of Russia, but within the former SU?

Best regards

Christian

hunyadi · October 31, 2006

I probably dont have much to add here, but seeing as we have a Russian TV station on cable - I watch it a few times and last Christmas there was a big program, a military musical from what I gathered and the camera would sweep throught the crowd occasionaly and I saw the upper offciers with HSU, Order of Lennin, etc... on those beautiful bars. Here in the former People's Republic of Hungary - wearing anything related to the Soviet era is a crime. Even a guy with the Communist Workers Party was arrested for having the old Hungarian Coat of Arms on his web site. He had also been arrested on other occasions for weaing a lapel pin with a red star. - But - you can go to freedom square and see the monument erected to the 'Liberating' Russians after WW2 - complete with golden star and hammer and sycle.

DutchBoy · October 31, 2006

The high military orders have been continued by the Russian Federation, like the Nakhimov, Ushakov, Nevsky, Suvorov, and Kutuzov. As far as I know the Bogdan Khmelnitsky Order has not been continued by the Russians, presumably because of its Ukrainian connection (and the fact that Ukraine now has its own version of the Khmelnitsky Order).

The order of Service to the Motherland has been taken up by Belarus, who made a few minor changes to it.

Christian Zulus · October 31, 2006

Gentlemen,

up to my taste, the "new" military awards of the successors of the Soviet Union are no match to the original SU-Awards - they look rather "cheap" in terms of design .

Is it still possible for the GPW-veteran to get his Glory 3cl or his OPW 2cl?

What about duplicate awards? If a veteran looses an order, would he get another one with the cyrillic "d" from the Russian Mint?

Best regards

Christian Zulus

Ed_Haynes · October 31, 2006

What has struck me -- both in awards and in the whole wider range of State symbolism -- is what seems to be a very conscious desire to return to an imperial set of symbols, to conjure a fake pre-revolutionary tsarist era. Fair enough, all states "market" themselves through their symbols, but I was struck by the vague unease that many I met in Moscow voiced to me about Tsar Vladimir III "Putin"'s conscious efforts at imperial symbolic rescurrection and historical denial.

NavyFCO · October 31, 2006

They are still awarding Soviet decorations if they had not made it to their intended recipients during the period of the Cold War. The Russian government still has stocks of Soviet awards and these are being awarded even now to veterans and their next of kin. The majority of these awards are "catch up" awards from the Patriotic War that either never found their recipient or the recipient was killed before he could accept the award.

Dave

Riley1965 · October 31, 2006

Pavlov, a member of OMSA, provided the Official List:

The full list of official state awards of modern Russia:

1) Gold medal of the Hero of the Russian Federation (http://award.adm.gov.ru/geroi/geroi_1.htm)

2) Order of the St.Andrew (http://award.adm.gov.ru/geroi/geroi_1.htm)

3) Order of the St.George (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_13.htm) - never issued

4) Order "For merits before Fatherland" in 4 classes (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_3.htm) - extremely rare in 1 and 2 classe, very rare in 3 class and rare in 4 class. issued with or whithout the swords. Badges with sword is more rare.

5) Order of Zhukov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_14.htm) - only 80 has been issued

6) Order of Courage (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_5.htm) - most common

7) Order for military merits (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_6.htm) - common

8) Order for sea merits (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_15.htm) - very rare

9) Order of Honour (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_7.htm) - not rare, but not common

10) Order of Friendship (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_4.htm) - not rare, but not common

11) Order of Suvorov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_8.htm) - never issued

12) Order of Ushakov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_9.htm) - never issued

13) Order of Kutuzov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_10.htm) - never issued

14) Order of Alexander Nevsky (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_11.htm) - never issued

15) Order of Nakhimov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_12.htm) - never issued

16) Medal of the order "For merits before Fatherland" in 2 classes (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_10.htm) - with or whithout the swords

17) Medal for Valor (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_2.htm) - common

18) Medal To the defender of Free Russia (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_9.htm) - very rare, many fakes

19) Medal For rescue perished (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_3.htm) - common

20) Medal of Suvorov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_8.htm) - common

21) Medal of Ushakov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_7.htm) - rare

22) Medal of Nesterov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_6.htm) - rare

23) Medal for Distinguished Service in Guarding State Border (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_4.htm) - common

24) Medal for Distinguished Service in Protecting the public Order (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_4.htm) - common

25) Medal for 50th Anniversary of Victory over Germany (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_14.htm) - very common (for veterans of the WW2 only)

26) Medal of Zhukov (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_12.htm) - 2 types. with number is common without number - very common (for veterans of the WW2 only)

27) Medal for 60th Anniversary of Victory over Germany (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_19.htm) - very common (for veterans of the WW2 only)

28) Medal for 300th Anniversary of Russian Navy (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_13.htm) - very common

29) Medal for 850th Anniversary of Moscow (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_11.htm) - very common

30) Medal of Pushkin (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_15.htm) - very rare

31) Medal for 100th Anniversary of Transsib Railway (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_16.htm) - rare

32) Medal For merits in carrying out of the All-Russia population census (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_17.htm) - common

33) Medal for 300th Anniversary of St.Peterburg (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_18.htm) - common

34) Medal For works on an agriculture (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_20.htm) - very rare

35) Medal for 1000th Anniversary of Kazan (http://award.adm.gov.ru/medal/medal_21.htm) - common

36) George cross (http://award.adm.gov.ru/znak/znak_2.htm) - never issued

37) Badge for Irreproachable Service (http://award.adm.gov.ru/znak/znak_3.htm) - rare. red ribbon for civilians, george ribbon for military

All other is non-state awards.

But many ministries (as, for example, the Ministry of Defence) have own awards. Awards from ministries are official awards. Many from ministerial award were handed over to military men for bravery in fight. For example, in the Chechen Republic.

And many, many unofficial awards (Umalatova, cossacks, etc.)

:beer: Doc

Edited October 31, 2006 by Riley1965

JimZ · October 31, 2006

Thanks for the links. Very interesting actually. So anything remotely connected to the communist ideals/symbolism has in fact been withdrawn. The orders of Red Star, Patriotic war and Red banners as well as Lenin are of course no longer there. The Order of honour has also changed a fair bit as well as the Friendship of Peoples...amongst others! Nevsky sports a blank shield. Yet again I feels like something has been lost and this saddens me. And its not just the lack of symbolism but even the concept....the concepts of motherland, the banner (flag) and especially the value of labour seem to have gone completely.I guess its welcome to the good old self centred capitalist approach of each man to himself....gone to extremes in some cases in Russia!...

As for Ed's comment I agree some of the awards I have seen are in fact very very Czarist in style....Czar Vladimir Putin :cheeky: ..... sounds like Mussolini and his fascination for the Roman Empire......

Jim

order_of_victory · October 31, 2006

I find it intresing that Putin has got rid of most Soviet Symbolism but as I remeber Putins first act in power was to bring back the Soviet National anthem :unsure:

Order of Victory

Ed_Haynes · October 31, 2006

I find it intresing that Putin has got rid of most Soviet Symbolism but as I remeber Putins first act in power was to bring back the Soviet National anthem
Order of Victory

No, he dropped it for something (musically nasty) written by Pushkin, but had to restore the old one (but with new words).

Edited October 31, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

JimZ · October 31, 2006

No, he dropped it for something (musically nasty) written by Pushkin, but had to restore the old one (but with new words).

Ha.... its difficuilt get used to a completely new anthem.......!!! By keeping the music and changing the lyrics at least the russians knew when their anthem was being played!!!

I realise that I did not come across an Order of Glory or its equivalent........Did that remain purely a WW2 combat award? Apart from the star shape I'd see no reason to change that.

Jim

David Gregory · October 31, 2006

3) Order of the St.George (http://award.adm.gov.ru/orden/orden_13.htm) - never issued

36) George cross (http://award.adm.gov.ru/znak/znak_2.htm) - never issued
37) Badge for Irreproachable Service (http://award.adm.gov.ru/znak/znak_3.htm) - rare. red ribbon for civilians, george ribbon for military

These look as though the Imperial awards have been reinstituted virtually without change.

I wonder just how much Czarist symbolism will be readopted?

JimZ · October 31, 2006

Well I guess that answers my query!

The cross of St George was replaced by the Order oF Glory which was yet again replaced by the Cross of St George!

I can sort of kind of follow the logic behind that at least!!

Jim

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