Soviet What Comes Around Goes Around

[slava1stclass]

To all:

This group has been circulating for a few months now. It's interesting to note the huge jump in price since having passed through a couple of hands to its present home at a well-known NYC-area dealer. The original sales price was $750.00 (back in early March of this year).

Current asking price: $1,650.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited November 3, 2006 by slava1stclass

[Paul L Murphy]

That's the sort of price growth you see in the Moscow property market at the moment !

The interesting thing to note with all these highly priced items is how long they stay in the dealer's list. There are a number of items out there that have been in lists for months now, a sure sign that prices have outstripped demand. The only question is whether the prices will correct, or whether demand will pick up as the Russian economy continues to improve.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Paul L Murphy

[Bryan]

or whether demand will pick up as the Soviet economy continues to improve.

Soviet economy ???

[NavyFCO]

I personally thought the group was expensive at $750. Only a couple months prior to when this was sold originally, I sold a documented and researched Glory 2 & 3, For Valor, 2x Military Merit, Red Star and jubilee OGPW1 that I felt happy to get LESS than that for (after trying to sell it for months!) I guess prices have really skyrocketed...somewhere...in the past few months.

Dave

[Paul L Murphy]

Freudian slip !

[Bob]

That's the sort of price growth you see in the Moscow property market at the moment !

The interesting thing to note with all these highly priced items is how long they stay in the dealer's list. There are a number of items out there that have been in lists for months now, a sure sign that prices have outstripped demand. The only question is whether the prices will correct, or whether demand will pick up as the Russian economy continues to improve.

To some extent these super highpriced items are a "marketing tool" though.

If you are in the market for a Tractor Lenin... you'll probably manage to find your way to these dealers ANYWAY. Putting them on their websites is a surefire way to get "mere mortals" coming back again and again though to browse their website.

[Stogieman]

Interesting... so what you're saying then is that the original seller, the man who was involved in writing "The Bible" (as accepted by most US collectors)..... doesn't know how to price his own stuff??

Interesting......

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

due to affluent money in Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc. the prices went up - and will move further on . Our world market for Soviet Awards IS the trading place of the National Heritage of the Russian People. So we don't act in a market for commodities, but in a rather "special" market like for relics of the Catholic Church .

Despite the price of that highly interesting Glory & Valour group, it might become a real "gem" for research: 4 pure battle awards to an NCO .

O.K., the asked price would be more fair, if the complete research + translations would be included ...

But for the current market situation the price for that set looks rather "normal" and in my humble opinion the market value of the Order of Glory is still rather underrated - specially the Glory 2cl seems like a real bargain in comparison to other military awards of the same rarity, i.e., Nevsky. Might be, that in summer 2007 a dealer will ask USD 3k for the set, if it is still circulating at the market .

Best regards

Christian Zulus

[NavyFCO]

Despite the price of that highly interesting Glory & Valour group, it might become a real "gem" for research: 4 pure battle awards to an NCO .

Actually, it is already researched.

Dave

[Stogieman]

Actually, the award card and citation for Glory 2 were in the group. The other citations were not part of it when sold by Paul Schmitt.

[JimZ]

Actually, the award card and citation for Glory 2 were in the group. The other citations were not part of it when sold by Paul Schmitt.

Amplify please Stogieman. "the award card and citation for Glory 2 were in the group. The other citations were not part of it" What does that mean?

As for prices, lets face it. the value of this group I'd say lies in the 550 - 700 MAX range and I would not look to pay more that that myself. However, it is rightly said that ridiculous prices are being paid by some Russian collectors repatriating russian awards. When Russians prefer to come and do their shoping here in Switzerland as it is much more affordable than Moscow I can only start to understand the some times ridiculous prices.

Having said that, this is the competition we are up against. They say that an army marches as fast as its slowest soldier. In similar fashion I say awards are worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay in each specific case. We can sit and argue about value of an award or group all night long, but I can assure you, that not even before sunset comes, someone with an interest *and a wad of cash) will take it from under our noses.

I personally have bought items from dealers at exorbitant prices. But I have also bought similar genuine items for a quarter of the price some other items were offerred at. Where is the real value of these awards? Some people would pay $40-$50 for a glory 3rd. If it was the only medal missing in a documented group of yours what would you pay for it?

Price is so very subjective.

Jim

[Stogieman]

The group was sold to me with a copy of the award record card and a copy of the citation for the Glory II. Whomever did the original research apparently did not request the individual citations for the Glory III, or for the bravery medals. Nor did they request a "complete file". Hence, the research with the group is limited with the potential to learn much more, perhaps, if one were so inclined.

My guess is, that whomever did the original research was only interested in confirming the authenticity of the group (all numbers match per the award card) and only the feat performed to earn the Glory II.

into research.

So, if you're into researching your Soviet groups, my advice is request a complete file, all citations, all records... the day may come when the door gets slammed shut and no more information will come out.

Get it while you can!!

[Ed_Haynes]

Get it [all research available] while you can!!

So true, so true!! Some day the doors will slam shut.

[Christian Zulus]

Market realities: Glory 2cl vs. Nevsky

Gentlemen,

as you can see at Igor's dealer's website only the Glory 2cl of Sgt. Radko is researched (without english translations!) - Glory 3cl + the two Valour-Medals have no research yet.

Let us have a look at the current market realities concerning Glory 2cl and Nevsky. Both orders have exactly the identical rarity and citations for both orders are always rather meritorious. Both orders have a brilliant and typical design. But the price tags of these orders are very different:

A nice Glory 2cl with good preserved gold, thin variant, etc. will sell about USD 550,-.

A nice Nevsky will sell for much more money:

- USD 4.000,- to USD 7.000,- for a T 1

- USD 2.000,- for a T 2

- USD 1.250,- for a T 3

O.K., the Nevsky is for officers and the Glory 2cl for NCOs and soldiers, but the price-gap is hughe - up to my humble opinion too hughe .

So the asked USD 1.500,- + for Sgt. Radko's 2 Glory + 2 Valour group might become a good investment, if the demand of the ex-Soviet market will still increase.

Best regards

Christian Zulus

P.S.: I never understood the price-gap between Nevsky T 1 & Nevsky T 2, because all Nevsky T 2 are converted Nevsky's T 1 ...

[Gerd Becker]

Christian, admit it, you only have a lot of Glories No offense, but thats wishful thinking imo. I also thought, the asked 750 Dollar were a little too much and even with a group premium this group isn?t worth the now asked 1500 Dollar, no way. Not yet, at least.

Did you see the bunch of unsold stuff on that website? I wouldn?t use this website as a price-level anymore.

If thats really the new price-level, then good bye Soviet awards for me.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Gerd Becker

[Christian Zulus]

Lieber Gerd,

I have more OGPWs in my collection, than Glory's

O.K., Igor's price tags are rather high, but what is your opinion about the price-gap between Glory 2cl & Nevsky?

Liebe Gr??e aus Wien

Christian

P.S.: Igor sells slowly, but he sells his stock.

[Gerd Becker]

Lieber Gerd,

I have more OGPWs in my collection, than Glory's

O.K., Igor's price tags are rather high, but what is your opinion about the price-gap between Glory 2cl & Nevsky?

Liebe Gr??e aus Wien

Christian

P.S.: Igor sells slowly, but he sells his stock.

Christian, in my opinion you can?t compare these two. The Nevsky is a "commander" award and was given to Officers and in the most cases for exceptional bravery. I don?t want to say, this is not the case with Glories, but you got a Glory 2nd class for the same things, you got a 3rd class for. Its maybe a little different with the 1st class, i guess.

Yes, i know, Igor sells his stock, but most probably not to me We?ll see , i have seen a lot of things... And no doubt, he has some very cool stuff and everythings real, thats the most important point.

Gerd

[JimZ]

Whomever did the original research apparently did not request the individual citations for the Glory III, or for the bravery medals. Nor did they request a "complete file". Hence, the research with the group is limited with the potential to learn much more, perhaps, if one were so inclined.

My guess is, that whomever did the original research was only interested in confirming the authenticity of the group (all numbers match per the award card) and only the feat performed to earn the Glory II.

into research.

Thanks Stogie.... I now understand what you meant. All clear!!!

[Stogieman]

Also... you will see things removed from this site only to re-appear at a later date. I think that if you are a specialist looking for rare, specific items, Igor's invaluable. Even if the items are not a financial reality for you, it is an excellent source to study authentic pieces.

I agree on price trends... ever upwards until people stop buying. We're into basic economics here, the law of supply and demand. There's a finite number of genuine sets out there.....

[JimZ]

Christian - My oh my but are you obsessed by the Order of Glory!! Good thing you were not responsible for medals in the USSR or you'd have made collecting Russian awards rather boring for us all by handing out nothing but Glories!!! .....

Joking aside....

Lets see if we can try to reason this out....

NEVSKY

T1 circa 500

T2 circa 6,000

T3 circa 36,000

GLORY 2

T1 circa 600

T2 circa 17,000

T3 circa 31,000

So T1 we'd understand would cost in the same regions....border reverse glory versus rectangular suspension Nevsky.....Understandable.

T2 Nevsky is a hell of a lot rarer than the Glory2 T2

But Glory2 T2 and T3 is not perceived as being all that different to the average non variation collector. Such a collector might argue that a Glory 2 is a Glory 2 whether thin or thick! So that places T2 + T3 Glory 2s (totalling 48,000) against a T3 Nevsky (36,000) making the the T3 Nevsky less common in the eyes of many and there is less competition for a glory 2 than there is for a Nevsky. I am not saying that I agree.... but going on this logic I can understand why a Nevsky is worth more than a T2/3 Glory 2 in general.

Then again, In my personal opinion ..... Glory 2 is a nice NCO award..... but Nevsky being officer material is more appealing to me!!

Cavielier.... lets not go there! Glory 1 is less common with circa 4000 awarded. hence the price tag on that is different.

Therefore back to this gorup......yes.... $550 - $700 I can understand and justify. More than and that i'd rather buy myself a Nevsky!!

Jim

Edited November 4, 2006 by jimzammit

[Riley1965]

As much as i like and respect Igor, his prices have been this side of outrageous!! He seems to be pushing to find the maximum people are willing to pay or most likely NOT willing to pay. Just my guess.

Doc

[slava1stclass]

Cavalier.... lets not go there! Glory 1 is less common with circa 4000 awarded. hence the price tag on that is different.

Jim

To all:

More accurately it is in the 2,500-2,600 range.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited November 4, 2006 by slava1stclass

[NavyFCO]

O.K., Igor's price tags are rather high, but what is your opinion about the price-gap between Glory 2cl & Nevsky?

It is difficult to pin prices on "rarity." There were 460,000 Lenins awarded during the USSR (some sources say that there were up to 600,000 awarded!) At the same time, there were 550,000 Red Banners awarded. Red Banners in common variety run $100-$125 each. Lenins run $700-$1000 each (and more.) There was only 90,000 (or less) specimens difference between the two awards in actual awarding, but does that account for a 7 to 10 times difference in price? Even when the Red Banner cost $25, the Lenins still ran at least $450 - an even greater price differential. Some people say that the Lenin's price is dictated by the precious metals in it and that's partially true. But has gold and platinum doubled in price in the last three years? (I don't think it has, otherwise I'd be selling off my gold coins....)

There are quite a few other comparisons that you can make (say a Hero of the USSR and a Hero of Socialist Labor, and their price difference, for example!) but the fact still remains the same - just because something has close rarity stats doesn't mean that it is valued the same as another award.

Just my opinion...

Dave

[Ed_Haynes]

Right. The basic rule of economics: Something is worth only what some damn fool will pay for it on any given day. Period.

Igor (to his credit) seems to be able to hold high-end stock over a long period, awaiting a deep-pocketed buyer (from the Old Country?).

Edited November 4, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

I am not sooooo mad about the Order of Glory - I have also two cute Nevsky T 2 in my modest collection: s/n. 4.556 & s/n. 9.534 - sorry, still unresearched .

But I assume, that a well preserved Glory 2cl will move close to the USD 1.000,- price tag. Despite the fact, that a Glory 2cl won't never hit the price tag of a Nevsky T 3.

Best regards

Christian Zulus