Mongolia Gentlemen please check your screwplates!

[fjcp]

First let me say, thank you! to those of you who still contribute to the Mongolian forum, I realize it's been a bit quiet around here, but new topics are hard to find and this one may rank rather high on the "Sillymeter", but I found it interesting all the same!

I just got in a low serial# Polar star (type 3 #583) and something caught my eye. On the inside of the screwplate there was a clearly discernable raised 'crossed sword' mark. It is on the area where the screw passes through the plate and the mark is therefore partially "damaged". I naturally checked my other orders and found that another polar star type3 serial#1035 had this same marking on its screwplate.

I'm curious, is this a known mark with the soviet guys? Is this just a trivial little detail or does it possible suggest an origin for the plates, if not for the orders them selves?

Anyway like I said earlier this might rank high on the "sillymeter" but any info and/or theories are more than welcome!

JC

[usairforce]

good

[Ed_Haynes]

Let me run off and squint . . . !

And not AT ALL a silly question. Everything we can learn is something new.

[Riley1965]

Gentlemen,

I have checked my Combat Valor and the three Herder badges in my collection. I sad to say that I didn't see the crossed swords

Doc

[fjcp]

Gentlemen,

I have checked my Combat Valor and the three Herder badges in my collection. I sad to say that I didn't see the crossed swords

Doc

Thanks for checking you guys!

I think the only likely suspects are the big orders, from the SB down to the Polar star, sine these all have the same type(s) of screwplates.

I've checked all my orders and only the polarstars had these markings.

I'm going to try to get better pictures of the marks with my camera, since my scanner doesn't like 3D objects that much!

JC

ps. My brother checked his Soviet screwplates from the nevsky etc. and none of these had the marks in question either.

pps. Ed, I'm glad you don't find it silly!

[Guest Rick Research]

QUITE interesting!

I've long wondered if the Moscow Artists Collaborative screw disks found on many of the Mongolian badges might have been left over stock, for example, matched up to postwar awards and "diumped" in an "after-market" after the demise of that firm during the war. (I still have a sneaking suspicion they turned into the "Victory" factory).

But the PURELY "Mongolian" mark you have discovered certainly seems to indicate LOCAL production. Maybe subcontracting, since the Orders themselves were made at the Moscow Mint?

Definitely worthy of further scrutiny!!!!

[fjcp]

QUITE interesting!

I've long wondered if the Moscow Artists Collaborative screw disks found on many of the Mongolian badges might have been left over stock, for example, matched up to postwar awards and "diumped" in an "after-market" after the demise of that firm during the war. (I still have a sneaking suspicion they turned into the "Victory" factory).

But the PURELY "Mongolian" mark you have discovered certainly seems to indicate LOCAL production. Maybe subcontracting, since the Orders themselves were made at the Moscow Mint?

Definitely worthy of further scrutiny!!!!

Great stuff!

It would be great if this little mystery could be solved, or at least cleared up a little!

If I had only found this on one of the screwplates I might have just dismissed it, but two near identical ones suggest something more!

I took some better pictures, hope this helps.

The first picture is of the lower serial# PS!

JC

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting. We have, I think, another case of materials recycling here. Looks to me like . . . well what do others think?

Are these pieces mintmarked?

And Polar Star only? As if this order needed another complexity!!

Will need to retrieve my friends from their off-site vacation spa and report (Monday?).

There is, of course, the constant possibility of serious mix-and-match with screwplates. While it is more of a problem with the badges than with the orders, we know how common it has been and still is (not all the screwplate-swapping has been done by our Ever-Helpful Dealer Friends, but has been practiced, I believe, by the recipients as well).

Edited December 9, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Eric Schena]

I may be imagining things, but that looks like a portion of a Soviet Medal for Combat/Military Merit:

[Ed_Haynes]

I may be imagining things, but that looks like a portion of a Soviet Medal for Combat/Military Merit:

That, Eric, was exactly my thought!

[Riley1965]

BINGO!!! It has to be!!! I hope that they were not serial numbered/awarded.

Doc

[Eric Gaumann]

Nada. Zero, zilch, zip, bupkus....

...on my OMM (OCV)-t1v2, OPS-t3v1, MoC-t1v2, HLM-t1v2sub1. They're all boring old plain screwplates.

Somehow I feel slighted.

[Guest Rick Research]

Kudos to Eric for spotting that!!!!

[fjcp]

Very impressive eric!!!

The funny thing is I had one of those sitting no more than 3 feet away from me!

They match perfectly! Although the sword handle on the screwback is a little "fatter" than the one on the medal, but none the less it's a match.

Great work, but now the question is why??

JC

[Ed_Haynes]

Having called together the "mob", I have but so far just one datapoint to contribute, but, maybe, an interesting one.

Polar Star type 3.1, #1217. Documented, awarded 3 December 1955.

Same recycling from the Medal for Combat/Military Merit but this is showing the last two characters from the second line of text.

[Bob]

I have one as well:)

Polar Star with 1562 serial number at 7 o clock

documented with date 08/07/1947

Here's scan

[Vatjan]

In know it is very sad, but I have to admit I have none

[Ed_Haynes]

Just in, on a Polar Star (type 3.1), # 554, what seems to be a sabre blade and part of a rifle receiver?

[order_of_victory]

Wow Facanitng thread, its realy odd that Soviet Medals were made in to Mongolian Screw plates

Order of Victory

[fjcp]

Woohoo Ed has another one....

This still is a bit of an odd thing though but we're getting a nice range for these screwplates, assuming that they are all original..

Just for easy ref. here is where we stand:

Only found on polar star type 3 so far

Serial#

554

583

1035

1217

1562

Cheers.

JC

[Bob]

And another one: 3108

[Ed_Haynes]

The PS type 3 theory still holds, but we need to remember the frequency with which screwplates are swapped around, both by recipients and dealers. Still, I think a pattern of recycling holds.

So who made these type 3 Polar Stars? Note that they are not marked "МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР" as the type 2s are.

I know we don't know (yet), but it is a question worth asking.

[Bob]

For the record, on eBay there's an Order of the Red banner with such a soviet-medal sourced screwplate.

[Ed_Haynes]

A screwback Soviet Red Banner with this screwplate? Much needs re-thinking ......

Admittedly, mix-and-match has been common with screwplates, but, but . . . .

[Bob]

A screwback Soviet Red Banner with this screwplate? Much needs re-thinking ......

Admittedly, mix-and-match has been common with screwplates, but, but . . . .

No, a Mongolian red banner. Perhaps the reason why the price was shooting up :cheers: