Order of the Zahringer Lion

[Carol I]

I have seen this badge in the window of a dealer and out of curiosity I would be interested in finding out more information about it. What class is it? Is it authentic? Approximately how much is it worth? Thanks.

Obverse

[Carol I]

Reverse

[Carol I]

Badge (obverse)

[Carol I]

Badge (reverse)

[Carol I]

Detail

[Carol I]

Detail

[Carol I]

Detail

[Jacky]

Hi Carol,

Although it's not exactly my collectorsfield,

I know little about this orders authenticity,

Many of us have written about this order.

What can I say?

Well due to the golden color, it seems a knight first class.

Painting and the construction seems quite well to me.

I would think it's original.

But you can compare yours with the others at this thread

Valuewise.. I know nothing about it.

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Carol I:

This is a Baden Order of the Zahringen Lion, Knight II with swords badge. It is original and probably from the 1914-1918 era. The value of the piece would probably be in the area of US$600 to US$750, but prices seem to be going up faster than I can keep track of them!

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Dave Danner]

Hello Carol I:

This is a Baden Order of the Zahringen Lion, Knight II with swords badge. It is original and probably from the 1914-1918 era. The value of the piece would probably be in the area of US$600 to US$750, but prices seem to be going up faster than I can keep track of them!

Best regards,

"SPM"

It is a Knight 1st Class, not 2nd Class.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello again:

OK, maybe I am a bit colorblind. For ME, it is a bit difficult to tell based upon the photographs. I am still leaning toward the body of the piece possibly being silver. The lighting here is definately a factor and may add a "yellow" hue to the piece. Some of the photos seem to make the body look gold, and some silver.

Oh well, I have been wrong before (as my wife reminds me often).

Best regards,

"SPM"

[militaria0815]

It is a Knight 1st Class, not 2nd Class.

Right, doubtless 100% 1st class.

Worth about US$ 600 - 700, a 2nd class about US$ 250 - 300. 1st class was awarded about 525 times in WW1, 2nd class 6367 awards.

[Yankee]

A real beauty, most likely 1900 era, in gold 1st class. The swords I'm not sure of. A very nice find

Good Luck.

[Carol I]

Thank you all for the replies. As far as I remember the badge was yellow (gold or at least golden, not oxidized silver), so if I understood right it is that for a knight first class. And the price was somewhere around 1200 USD, way above what you seem to consider an honest price.

Thanks once again for this introductory lesson in old German orders.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello again:

OK, me culpa. It was yellow, so we have a knight I with swords!

I think that $1,000 to $1,200 would not be at all unreasonable for a gold knight I with swords. They are certainly not available often on the market!

Good luck Carol I!

Best regards,

"SPM"

[militaria0815]

A real beauty, most likely 1900 era, in gold 1st class. The swords I'm not sure of. A very nice find

Good Luck.

If it is real gold price is OK.

[Yankee]

If it is real gold price is OK.

Hello Carol l

If it is real gold & the swords turn out to be gold as well, then the price is OK. The swords appear to be gold as well but not certain. Examine the swords carefully and that will give you a definite answer.

All the best

Yankee

[Carol I]

Thanks for the updates. Can you please give also a short description of the appearance of the badges of all classes? Knight second class was in silver and worn on a chest-ribbon. Knight first class was in gold and worn on a chest-ribbon. ...

[Jacky]

Commander was worn on a neckribbon

And the grand officer had a breast star, and wore the badge on a sash.

That's all folks.

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Dave Danner]

Thanks for the updates. Can you please give also a short description of the appearance of the badges of all classes? Knight second class was in silver and worn on a chest-ribbon. Knight first class was in gold and worn on a chest-ribbon. ...

Knight 2nd Class was silver, but the swords were golden. Since many Knight's 2nd Class with swords have a patina from age, the silver detail sometimes looks like it might have been silver-gilt that has "washed" away. So many 2nd Classes, especially in bad light, look like they might be 1st Classes. But the gold detail on 1st Classes is pretty striking.

We had a thread here recently on a medal bar where it seemed like a ZLO 1st Class, but was a 2nd Class. There are other examples posted in that thread which make the contrast clearer.

I have a 2nd Class, which due to lighting and age, sometimes looks like it was gilt when viewed by itself. But when you put it next to a 1st class, the difference is pretty clear.

[Dave Danner]

Commander was worn on a neckribbon

And the grand officer had a breast star, and wore the badge on a sash.

That's all folks.

Kind regards,

Jacky

Commander 1st Class also had a breast star. Commander's Cross, Knight 1st Class and Knight 2nd Class could also be awarded with oakleaves.

And I know of at least one Grand Cross recipient who wore his sash badge like a neck badge:

[militaria0815]

Medal bar from Oberstleutnant Ernst von R?cker, the only Bavarian officer who got the Z?hringer Lion Knights cross 1st class with oakleaves and swords, 1 of 139 officers in total.

[Deruelle]

Very nice medal bar.

Regards

Christophe

[Yankee]

If it is real gold price is OK.

Absolutely agree with you, a silver gilt one value is far less.

[saschaw]

Absolutely agree with you, a silver gilt one value is far less.

This one is real Gold indeed, and US$ 1,200.- is a normal price I'd actually liked almost to pay, if I had the money.

Medal bar from Oberstleutnant Ernst von R?cker, the only Bavarian officer who got the Z?hringer Lion Knights cross 1st class with oakleaves and swords, 1 of 139 officers in total.

The first one mounted I've ever seen - great bar, thanks for showing.