Soviet Berlin, May 1945 picture

[Bryan]

I'd like to know which crosses are wearing the 3 Marshals at the right from Zhukov and Montgomery. Is that a Polish cross or something like that? Sorry for my ignorance.

[Guest Rick Research]

Too small and blurry to tell, but since marching along with Monty, probably "fraternal" CBEs handed out on the spot.

Zhukov's got a Grand Cross sash slung over his shoulder too.

[Riley1965]

The shape of the cross on the middle Soviet Marshal looks like the shape of the CBE. It would be interesting to know which Grand cross Zhukov was wearing.

Doc

[Christian Zulus]

Our comrades just received their UK-Awards

I'd like to know which crosses are wearing the 3 Marshals at the right from Zhukov and Montgomery. Is that a Polish cross or something like that? Sorry for my ignorance.

From Wikipedia:

FIELD MARSHAL MONTGOMERY DECORATES RUSSIAN GENERALS AT THE BRANDENBURG GATE IN BERLIN, GERMANY, 12 JULY 1945. The Deputy Supreme Commander in Chief of the Red Army, Marshal G Zhukov, the Commander of the 21st Army Group, Field Marshal Sir Bernard Montgomery, Marshal Sokolovsky and General K Rokossovsky of the Red Army leave the Brandenburg Gate after the ceremony.

Best regards

Christian

[order_of_victory]

Wow look at all them medals

Order of Victory

[slava1stclass]

To all:

On 12 July 1945, Field Marshal Montgomery, acting on behalf of the King of England, presented honorary British knighthoods to the following Red Army officers:

Marshal of the Soviet Union Zhukov; Commander, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Grand Cross of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (G.C.B.)

Marshal of the Soviet Union Rokossovskiy; Commander, 2nd Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (K.C.B.)

General of the Army Sokolovskiy; Deputy Commander, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.)

Colonel General Malinin; Chief of Staff, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.)

The ceremony took place in the heart of shattered Berlin directly underneath the Brandenburg Gate. The Kings Company of the Grenadier Guards formed the Guard of Honor with tanks of the Kings 8th Royal Irish Hussars drawn up on either side.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Mr. "slava1stclass",

many thanks for the precise informations .

At least the order, Marshall Zhukov received, is an extraordinary high British Decoration.

As citizens of the UK or the Commenwealth, the 4 generals would have been entitled to wear the title "Sir" in front of their names. So they only had the right to put the K.B.E., etc. after their name, as the Austrian pianist Alfred Brendl .

You can see that at the Wiki-entry of Zhukov: Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov, GCB - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov

Best regards

Christian

To all:

On 12 July 1945, Field Marshal Montgomery, acting on behalf of the King of England, presented honorary British knighthoods to the following Red Army officers:

Marshal of the Soviet Union Zhukov; Commander, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Grand Cross of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (G.C.B.)

Marshal of the Soviet Union Rokossovskiy; Commander, 2nd Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (K.C.B.)

General of the Army Sokolovskiy; Deputy Commander, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.)

Colonel General Malinin; Chief of Staff, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.)

The ceremony took place in the heart of shattered Berlin directly underneath the Brandenburg Gate. The Kings Company of the Grenadier Guards formed the Guard of Honor with tanks of the Kings 8th Royal Irish Hussars drawn up on either side.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Christian Zulus]

Wow look at all them medals

Order of Victory

Dear Vic,

here is the famous painting, showing comrade Zhukov with his "Knight Grand Cross of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (G.C.B.)" on the sash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Bath .

Best regards

Christian

[Bryan]

Ok so it seems this is not in May 1945, but in July 1945 and it seems these are not al Marshals. Thanks for the clarification.

Too small and blurry to tell, but since marching along with Monty, probably "fraternal" CBEs handed out on the spot.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what a CBE? Any clarification would be appreciate.

[Christian Zulus]

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what a CBE? Any clarification would be appreciate.

Dear Bryan,

you are citizen of Canada and belong to the Commenwealth - these are your awards .

CBE, etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: If you would donate a hughe collection of Orders and Medals to a public museum in Canada you might receive a MBE:

[Ed_Haynes]

No, British ("Imperial") honours are no longer given in Canada.

[Christian Zulus]

No, British ("Imperial") honours are no longer given in Canada.

Dear Ed,

you are sure ?

But "Bath" (+ aristocratic title), etc. are still possible for Canadian, Austrialian, etc. citizens ?

Best regards

Christian

BTW: So, Bryan can never promote to a MBE .

[Ed_Haynes]

Quite sure. Only the UK and some places like Bermuda still send up recommendations for "Imperial Honours". Canada, Australia, etc. haven't done so for some time now and have their own systems. Likewise, they have dropped the whole "knighthood" business, leaving only the UK holding onto those customs.

[Christian Zulus]

Quite sure. Only the UK and some places like Bermuda still send up recommendations for "Imperial Honours". Canada, Australia, etc. haven't done so for some time now and have their own systems. Likewise, they have dropped the whole "knighthood" business, leaving only the UK holding onto those customs.

Dear Ed,

many thanks for the information .

Bermuda and Belize (Lord Ashcroft , the guy with the incredible VC-collection)

But the fact is, that there are still a lot of "Sirs" and "Dames" in Canada, Australia, NZ, etc.

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Baron Ashcroft vs. Marshal Zhukov

Gentlemen,

Lord Ashcroft holds "only" a "Knight Commander of the Order of St Michael and St George", which is at least two steps below the "Knight Grand Cross of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (G.C.B.)", Marshal Zhukov received .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ashcroft

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

But Lord Ashcan holds a title of nobility -- "Baron Ashcroft of Chichester" [not ". . . of Belize" as he wanted]-- for his "political services" to the conservatives. Of course he does not use "Sir" because he is a lord.

But Zhukov had two Orders of Victory, but no Victoria Crosses, in his collection. Lord Ashcan has all the VCs.

[Laurence Strong]

Dear Ed,

you are sure ?

But "Bath" (+ aristocratic title), etc. are still possible for Canadian, Austrialian, etc. citizens ?

Best regards

Christian

BTW: So, Bryan can never promote to a MBE .

In Canada the answer is "No". There was quite a bruhaha in Canada a few years ago with Conrad Black,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/black_conrad/

A quote form the linked article:

"......In 1999, the British government moved to make him Lord Black. This elicited strong opposition from Prime Minister Jean Chr?tien who pointed to the Nickle Resolution of 1919, which ruled that foreign governments could not grant honours to Canadians that carry a title or privilege. Black challenged the ruling unsuccessfully in court.

Crossharbour station in London

Determined to get his title, Black renounced his Canadian citizenship and was officially inducted into the British House of Lords as Lord Black of Crossharbour on October 31, 2001. Crossharbour is the name of a neighbourhood as well as a subway stop on the Docklands light railway, near the Daily Telegraph building...."

Edited January 29, 2007 by Laurence Strong

[Christian Zulus]

In Canada the answer is "No". There was quite a bruhaha in Canada a few years ago with Conrad Black,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/black_conrad/

A quote form the linked article:

"......In 1999, the British government moved to make him Lord Black. This elicited strong opposition from Prime Minister Jean Chr?tien who pointed to the Nickle Resolution of 1919, which ruled that foreign governments could not grant honours to Canadians that carry a title or privilege. Black challenged the ruling unsuccessfully in court.

Crossharbour station in London

Determined to get his title, Black renounced his Canadian citizenship and was officially inducted into the British House of Lords as Lord Black of Crossharbour on October 31, 2001. Crossharbour is the name of a neighbourhood as well as a subway stop on the Docklands light railway, near the Daily Telegraph building...."

Dear Laurence,

but Canada is still a royal monarchy with Q II as head of state ?

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

But Zhukov had two Orders of Victory, but no Victoria Crosses, in his collection. Lord Ashcan has all the VCs.

Dear Ed,

Michael Ashcan bought his VCs and Zhukov earned his two Orders of Victory .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: A G.C.B. is something: Baron Georgy Zhukov of Berlin .

[Bryan]

Dear Bryan,

you are citizen of Canada and belong to the Commenwealth - these are your awards .

Christian, I'm rather secessionist and would prefer to be out of the Commenwealth.

So I know nothing about British Empire medals.

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

While we?re on the subject of the OBE, I thought that you all might appreciate this award to Major General Vasili Vasilyevich Rassokhin, commander of the 12th Naval Infantry Brigade.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Major General Vasili Vasilyevich Rassokhin

[Christian Zulus]

Major General Vasili Vasilyevich Rassokhin

Dear "Wild Card",

for what did our comrade get his O.B.E. (+ his Lenin & 4 RBs) ?

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

This is actually a CBE. The MBE silver breast badge, and the OBE gilt breast badge. The CBE as shown above is an enameled gilt neck badge. The KBE adds a breast star to the neck badge while the GBE is a sash, badge, and breast star. Soviets were always "inventive" in their wear of foreign awards, especially those intended to be worn at the neck.

[Ed_Haynes]

I may have put this up somewere before, but for the post-1935 military division of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire see:

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/un...-kingdom025.htm

and for the military division of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath see:

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/un...-kingdom006.htm