This Week's Ribbon Bar Fakes!

[HeikoGrusdat]

yes, two different guys from two different places in germany, one in Berlin and one in the south-west but the same type of faked ribbon bars.... again I just can say hat it is unbelievable that this sh.. is sold for these high prices...

Heiko

[Stogieman]

Our friend has started using the following two "handles" on Militaria-Web.

montecassino

fritz11

I suppose we could have 2 guys here, but they are both selling the same crap fakes, original ribbons, plates, note the backing/stitching on these:

[Stogieman]

And another:

[Stogieman]

And a third:

[Stogieman]

This is a good place to interject that the backings, although different materials, have the same "narrow" strip that does not meet the edges of the back. The use of blue thread is a new touch.... must have run out of black/FG.... always uses materials that do not glow..... I think we have underestimated the sneakiness factor...

Also, note that the Ohio Monstrosity will usually have full backing with tiny stitches (as well as hand-snipped catches)..... two patterns to make you think twice. Not all bars like this are bad.... but it's hard enough to find decent material without having to be suspicious of every piece you see.

[Stogieman]

Guess what? ANOTHER Bar with the Danzig cross! Gadzooks!

[Guest Rick Research]

As characters in the Great Play of ribbon bar fakery, Mister Ohio Parts Frauds is now joined by he who shall be known as the Danzig Faker.

Every Danzig cross ribbon I have ever seen-- and this must be what, 20? in the last year has been FAKE. To the point of if a bar has one, instantaneous thumbs down and walk on by.

[Christian L]

do you know a good danzig ribbonbar?

or are they all

[Stogieman]

And another one. The sad thing is there's a couple that look right, but I wouldn't trust anything from this guy any more

[Stogieman]

And another one. How many german-style Romanian ribbon bars have you seen in the last 20 years?

[Guest Rick Research]

God, these are simply STUPID. What a waste.

[Stogieman]

I am happy to say that the frequency of his listings has slowed. perhaps spreading the word has diminished his capacity to screw people over.

We can only hope.

[Stogieman]

Hey! Our favorite seller is back this week with some amazing new bars!!

[Stogieman]

And this one............ fabulous!

[Stogieman]

And this one.. oooooooooo

[Stogieman]

And here's a couple from last week...... as they are now in circulation

[Stogieman]

And this one, that's it for now!

[Stogieman]

Well, I was thinking we have had some impact, but he's back this week with this one:

[Paul R]

Thank you for posting these bad bars. I am learning a lot here...

What give the bars away as being fake in #'s 29 and 30?

Also, what can I do to detect the Ohio Parts Handsnipped Brassers without removing the backing material? Also, is there a way to detect these using photos only?

Many apologies for these basic questions.

Paul

Edited October 31, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Stogieman]

Hi Paul, I think at this point it's simply better to suspect anything and everything sold by this gentleman

[Guest Rick Research]

Here are the dead giveaway trademarks of this GERMAN "Ohio" Home Industries mass crap producer:

[attachmentid=14571]

If this greedy faker confined himself to logical WW2 combinations and improved his appalling backings, these would be deadly with all original parts including the backings. But he gets carried away with exotica, implausible combinations (as the one above-- makes absolutely no sense at all), and apparently has unlimited supplies of 1930s-40s WW1 ribbon stock in synthetic materials which are NOT appropriate on mid-1930s+ stamped steel backings without Hindenburg Crosses.

The Ohio All Brass Horrors have HAND SNIPPED catches, which even if the entire metal backplate is covered (and you can usually see the brass backing at each end) is immediately obviously NOT stamped:

FAKES on the left and center and ORIGINAL on the right below-- the hand snipped catches show scoring (and often still the pencil lines from marking where the snips would chop) and the bottom of the stamped "U" tongue which they are made in mockery of is angled _/ because the tin shears can't make the correct "U"

[attachmentid=14572][attachmentid=14596]...[attachmentid=14573]

Another common failure with the hand snipped fake "U" catch type is they are usually applied so HIGH on the ribbon bar that if they WERE stamped out as the originals were there would be no top edge at all and the catch would have fallen off!!! You can always feel the dent from the front side of a true stamped "U" catch.

That style was NOT used in the Imperial period, when the most common style was the "C" catch.

Below are two ORIGINAL "C" catches, often found in brass and soldered onto the back of the solid steel backing as shown on the left or stamped out on the metal tab back style that came in during the war (usually painted Feldgrau on the stock that old though used right through WW2)

[attachmentid=14574][attachmentid=14575]

A WIDE rather than NARROW as just above left BRASS catch is normally an immediate indication of the all hand snipped brass forgeries. Just be aware that some original "U" tongue catch types are coppered or may have a gold-ish finish applied over the steel as an anti-corrosion finish. A magnet and hand inspection of the "U" and "dent" easily distinguishes those from fakes.

There WERE wide STEEL and stamped catches WW1 on (very caharacteristic of Godet-made bars, for instance) but those are easily distingusihable from the crude hand irregularity of tin snipped brass junk.

BRASS M1915 type ribbon bar backings were almost never, ever used, so a brass "skeleton" is immediate cause for concern EXCEPT for the smaller half-height styles, which almost invariably used brass, even during WW2. I assume that there were tensile strength or stamping issues that made non-tab back half heights more effective in brass than steel.

But again, even on original brass half height ribbon bars, you will NEVER see a wide hand snipped catch.

#s 29 (very weird high steel catch there!) and 30 are "fingerprintable" largely as a result of this particular Monster Craftsman's backing "techniques." The fact that everything being sold displays the same "handiwork" is what first caught the attention of the Ribbon bar Police.

Dispersed into the after market and found singly rather than in bulk, these will be trickier. that is why we suggest evrybody familiarize yourselves with what real and not real backings look like, and why we will show backings on original pieces as needed. But remember that the crooks and cheats can read our pages just as easily as we can, so it is not our intention to provide free Build Better Frauds seminars allowing predators to better entrap our unwary brothers.

Be careful out there!

[Paul R]

Thank you, Rick. Your explaination is just what I need!

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

Fascinating stuff, but I am torn:

1- We should post as much information as possible, for knowledge is power, and like fertilizer needs to be spread about to do any good. We need to identify and catch the scoundrels (other words come to mind) whose nefarious actions promise to poison the well for this generation and all collecting generations to come.

2- By saying how they have done it wrong, how we catch on to them, we are merely educating these crooks so they'll do it better next time.

I believe both. And am confused.

[Guest Rick Research]

Join the club!

But like all criminals, these types are

lazy

careless (they don't actually care at ALL, or they wouldn't be doing this)

ignorant (there are no Arcane Scholar Criminals-- those who master Field X love it too much to betray it)

but most of all

hasty.

They CHURN the crap out, en masse...

Pappa, Mamma, all the leetle chirruns sitting around the dining table after dinner every freakin' night, busily busily busily smacking together those 50 crap bars to sell this week.

This is criminal "business" for them.

They aren't sneaking 1 in as "salting the mine" with good stuff.

They aren't selling "one offs."

This is BULK production

piecework stuff, quantity over quality.

And in mass production mass errors are inevitable.

As in the case of the fool who plagiarized your entire website,

monkey see

no mean

said monkey can DO.

But they don't NEED to be careful or precise in this line of criminal activity.

They aren't out to fool ME with ONE bar...

they are after the inexhaustible market of inexperienced once-bitten newbies who haven't found us yet, the delusional knowitalls who don't, and those smug "bargain" ebay types who never, ever, come to a website like this,

who do not study,

and who do not even DREAM there is any need to bother because

Who Would fake Things Like These?

Wellllll.... WE know who would and who does.

What we have HERE are the survivors in the collecting lifeboat, while the opportunists are breaking into the sinking ship's safe to scoop up... fools gold as they go under.

There is, actually NO way to tell if an all WW2 bar with all WW2 original materials is original or not, if done right. But if they DID those "right," there would be no "free" money in it, because those sort of bars are readily available already. There's no "return" on fraudulently duplicating boring originals.

[Stogieman]

Only a couple this week. Same seller.... go figure.