Baden Karl Friedrich MVM and Prussian GMVK

Dave Danner · March 9, 2007

I don't know if this list has been generated elsewhere and I'm not entirely certain how complete it is, but I hope it will be of some interest (though maybe not of use since you don't exactly see this combo every day). Below is a list of recipients of both the Merit Medal of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order (Verdienstmedaille des Militärischen Karl-Friedrich-Verdienstordens), Baden's highest award bravery for enlisted soldiers and NCOs, commonly referred to as the Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal, and Prussia's Military Merit Cross (Militär-Verdienstkreuz), the so-called "Pour le Mérite for NCOs and enlisted men", commonly referred to as the Golden Military Merit Cross.

Brändlin, Martin - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as an Uffz. in Badisches Leib-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 109 on 3.10.17 (#577); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. in LGR 109 on 31.1.18 (#61)
Christ, Georg - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw.d.L. in 2. Badisches Grenadier-Regiment Kaiser Wilhelm I. Nr. 110 on 3.10.17 (#591); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in GrenR 110 on 8.11.18 (#1678)
Demmer, Josef - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Gefreiter/Ersatz-Reservist in Badisches Leib-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 109 on 3.10.17 (#584); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Sergeant in LGR 109 on 21.4.18 (#199)
Emmerich, Adolf - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. d.R. in Füsilier-Regiment Fürst Karl-Anton von Hohenzollern (Hohenzollernsches) Nr. 40 on 24.11.17 (#627); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. d.R. in FüsR 40 on 12.2.18 (#67)
Kleiser, Emil - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as an Uffz.d.R. in 9. Badisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 170 on 8.6.17 (#349); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. in IR 170 on 11.5.18 (#659)
Ludwig, Heinrich - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. in Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 236 on 12.4.18 (#958); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. in RIR 236 on 11.4.18 (#112)
Marzenell, Jakob - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. in 8. Badisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 169 on 13.7.18 (#1021); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. in IR 169 on 30.6.18 (#813)
Metzner, Fritz - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as an Uffz. in Badisches Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 109 on 13.2.15 (#15); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in RIR 109 on 7.7.18 (#858)
Nold, Theodor - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. in 8. Badisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 169 on 4.1.17 (#258); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in IR 169 on 29.3.18 (#96)
Odenwald, Oskar - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. in Badisches Leib-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 109 on 18.7.17 (#422); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in LGR 109 on 8.11.18 (#1669)
Seitz, Wilhelm - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Gefr.d.R. in Ersatz-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 29 on 15.12.17 (#684); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Sergeant in ErsIR 29 on 21.4.18 (#151)
Seubert, Georg - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. in 2. Badisches Grenadier-Regiment Kaiser Wilhelm I. Nr. 110 on 3.3.16 (#165); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in GR 110 on 110 3.5.18 (#521)
Spies, Hermann - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw. in 8. Badisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 169 on 2.9.16 (#210); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. in IR 169 on 28.11.17 (#46)
Triebskorn, Leopold - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Gefr. in Badisches Leib-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 109 on 17.10.17 (#550); Golden Military Merit Cross as a Vzfw. in LGR 109 on 31.1.18 (#62)
Vogt, Josef - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw./Offz.Stellv. in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 470 on 25.8.17 (#512); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in IR 470 on 13.10.18 (#1419)
Weber, Gustav - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as a Vzfw./Offz.Stellv. in 2. Badisches Grenadier-Regiment Kaiser Wilhelm I. Nr. 110 on 13.11.16 (#225); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in GrenR 110 on 3.5.18 (#522)
Wieber, Josef - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as an Offz.Stellv. in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 185 on 11.2.18 (#738); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in IR 185 on 2.6.18 (#479)
Wißler, Robert - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as an Offz.Stellv. in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 185 on 11.12.17 (#682); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. in IR 185 on 25.4.18 (#343)
Wurth, Josef - Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal as an Offz.Stellv. d.L. in Badisches Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 111 on 4.1.17 (#251); Golden Military Merit Cross as an Offz.Stellv. d.L. in RIR 111 on 29.3.18 (#93)

My guess on the Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal where two ranks are listed is that there was a promotion between the time of the act of bravery and the time the award was made. The numbers after the dates are their places on the respective rolls of the two decorations.

There are three others who are probables/possibles, but about which I have questions:

Uffz. Johannes Körber of Feldartillerie-Regiment Großherzog (1. Badisches) Nr. 14 received the Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal on 15.8.17 (#434). Vzwm. Johannes Körber of FAR 14 received the Golden Military Merit Cross on 1.9.18 (#1139). Same (not too common) name, same unit. Only question is whether a little over a year from Unteroffizier to Vizewachtmeister is feasible.
Uffz. Karl Emil Stober of 2. Badisches Grenadier-Regiment Kaiser Wilhelm I. Nr. 110 received the Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal on 3.10.17 (#587). Vzfw. Emil Stober of GrenR 110 received the Golden Military Merit Cross on 30.6.18 (#829). Essentially the same question: slight difference in name, same unit, but is less than nine months from Unteroffizier to Vizefeldwebel feasible?
Vzfw. Emil Haas of 9. Badisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 170 received the Golden Military Merit Cross on 8.11.18 (#1675). Three Vzfw. Emil Haas's received the Karl Friedrich MVM. One can be ruled out because he was an aviator. The others were Vzfw. Emil Haas of 5. Badisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 113 (Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal on 16.12.15 (#135)) and Vzfw. Emil Haas of Ersatz-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 29 (Silver Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Medal on 1.10.18 (#1180)). With the first Haas, you have a three-year window to migrate from IR 113 to IR 170, without an intervening promotion, so it is possible but not proven. At first glance, the second Haas would seem unlikely. He was in ErsIR 29 in October 1918, and IR 170 in November? But, and like J-Lo's this is a big but ... ErsIR 29 was actually disbanded in September 1918. The men of its I. and III. Bataillone were dispersed among IR 169 and IR 170. So the Baden orders chancery could easily have been processing an award for an NCO of ErsIR 29 at the end of September and made the award as of October 1, even though by then he was in IR 170. Again, possible but not proven, but maybe more likely.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Dave Danner
fix characters

AJHaslett · March 9, 2007

Dave,

Very interesting and excellent information. I have some interest in Baden units, especially the 169th and 170th IR as they were from the area of Baden I once lived in.

Sadly, I highly doubt I will ever own the medals of any of these recipients, but we can continue to dream as they say!

Thanks for sharing!

Adam

saschaw · March 9, 2007

Very interresting list, though I don't think to need it some day ...

I've got a Photo of an elderly man whose decorations I cannot all identify for sure, it MIGHT be one of those with this combination - might.

I started another topic for it, as he may wear other things and none of those two bravery awards.

Wild Card · March 15, 2007

Dave,

This is a fantastic piece of information and I thank you for the work that went into it. The beauty if it, of course, is the fact that the Baden medals are named. Unfortunately, I doubt that I will ever be fortunate enough to have one of these; but it is so good that this information has finally been put together.

Thank you again and best wishes,

Wild Card

schwarzwald666 · January 3, 2022

Over the next few days I will show you an estate of a holder of both awards!

David M · January 3, 2022

I am not familiair with the Baden military archives, but maybe confirmation on the careerchanges mentioned in the first post are to be found in those records

Dave Danner · January 3, 2022

13 hours ago, David M said:

I am not familiair with the Baden military archives, but maybe confirmation on the careerchanges mentioned in the first post are to be found in those records

I can confirm the first two of my probable cases above:

Körber, Johannes
*16.10.1893 in Sinsheim, Maurer ebd.
• 16.10.13 eingetreten, 9.7.15 Gefreiter, 30.10.16 Unteroffizier, 19.9.17 Vizewachtmeister, 31.5.19 entlassen
• BsV (7.11.14), EK2 (27.8.16), BsM (18.9.17 laut KrSR), EK1 (28.1.18), MVK (1.9.18), BD3 (8.11.19)

Stober, Karl Emil
*25.12.1890 in Linkenheim, Karlsruhe, Maler in Heidelberg
• 16.10.12 Ersatzrekrut, 1.10.13 Gefreiter, 27.8.14 verwundet, 17.11.14 Unteroffizier, 13.12.17 Vizefeldwebel (wegen Tapferkeit), 29.5.18 verwundet, 24.2.19 entlassen
• EK2 (9.1.15), BsV (19.6.16), BsM (4.10.17 laut KrSR), EK1 (29.3.18), MVK (30.6.18)

As for Emil Haas, I am still not 100% certain. The Emil Haas in EIR 29 was indeed sent to IR 170, but the Prussian MVK is not listed in his Kriegsstammrolle entry. It's possible there is a later entry in another Stammrolle. There's no Entlassung date, so the Stammrolle entry for him is incomplete. It's also interesting that he got the BsM without previously having the BsV. That could happen - some Saxons received the St. Heinrich medal before or without the Friedrich-August-Medaille and some Bavarians received the Tapferkeitsmedaille before or without the Militärverdienstkreuz - but I've not seen it with Badeners before.

Haas, Emil
*19.4.1897 in Pfullendorf, Landwirt in Meßkirch
• 8.3.16 Ersatzrekrut im LGR 109, 25.9.16 z. IR 185, 15.4.17 Gefreiter, 17.10.17 Unteroffizier, 31.10.17 z. I.Ers./IR 114, 10.1.18 Offizieraspirant, 23.2.18 Vizefeldwebel, 25.5.18 z. II.Ers./IR 114, 24.7.18 z. 2.MGK/EIR 29, 16.9.18 z. 1.MGK/IR 170, 4.10.18 schwer verwundet
• EK2 (28.9.17), EK1 (7.9.18), BsM (1.10.18)

saschaw · February 20, 2023

On 03/01/2022 at 01:28, schwarzwald666 said:
Over the next few days I will show you an estate of a holder of both awards!

We're still waiting eagerly to see that group, schwarzwald666. Will you do us this favor?

:blush:

On 03/01/2022 at 20:32, Dave Danner said:

It's also interesting that he (Emil Haas) got the BsM without previously having the BsV. That could happen (...) but I've not seen it with Badeners before.

This oddity was a common practice though, judging from Zelosko's volume III, the "Great War" citations. Browsing through it, I can find quite some soldiers that received an initial BsM, like Willi Aberle, Friedrich Deschner, Ferdinand Harder, Leo Triebskorn, Wilhelm Unfall, Eugen Ad. Winterhalter and Philipp Würthwein... because they already held both classes of the Iron Cross!