Brian Wolfe Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Hello All,I seem to have purchased my share of renamed medals in the past but here is a pair that I just couple not resist purposely adding to my collection. I hope you have not eaten anything lately or you might not be able to keep your lunch down after you see this pair. They started out life as a BWM and Victory Medal pair. There was enough original naming on these to make out that they were named to 7593 SJT. J.W. ________ R.A. What a shame that theses were altered!The Victory medal has had the Winged Victory removed and a crude bust of Kind Edward VII applied, probably using solder and sweated onto the original medal. There are traces of silver-like material around the bust which makes me think it is solder. The wording that has been applied reads INDIAN EMPIRE EDWARD VII, I'll show the reverse in the next photo.The BWM has been left unaltered on the obverst but you can see the welts caused by the removal of the reverse. The hanger has been removed and a wire hanger made to replace the original.The ribbons are the 1911 Coronation and the India General Service 1908-35.It would seem that this fellow felt he should have been awarded medals for his service and went out and purchased another soldier's and had them "customized". I don't know where he would have worn these as they would quickly be seen as frauds. The reverse next.CheersBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 Now for the reverse. The victory medal has had the original reverse filed off and the the letters SY??HAN cut into the surface and the new owner's name,C. CARD cut below. It looks like there was an attempt to put something in the centre of the medal but I can not make it out. Any ideas as to what the place name SY??HAN would be? It could be a mis-spelling of the place name. The edge is named probably in an attempt to make this look as original as possible. It says, C.CARD M.T. (motor transport?). The BWM has the wording INDIA NW FRONTIER replacing the usual reverse and the name C.CARD in the centre. On the edge is carved the name C.CARD as well but without "M.T.".As you can see my collection now has the "ugly" part of the "good, the bad and the ugly".Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Bloody hell... there must be a story behind that !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Yes, ugly as they may be, a fascinating hidden tale of social history and self-awarded medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I just barfed my breakfast all over my keyboard ! Glad it happened in work and not at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) Here's the gent who owned the originals: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=6I wonder if he was entitled to a 1903 Delhi Durbar and IGS 1908, bar NWF 1908? (Or thought he was entitled.)Could "Sy han" be "Durbar" by any chance - the engraving is very crude? Edited April 10, 2007 by Michael Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yes, ugly as they may be, a fascinating hidden tale of social history and self-awarded medals.Sjt. Fothergill survived the Great War. Probably he needed the money and sold his medals to Card, or to a pawn shop, where Card picked them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 There was a Charlie and a Cecil Card in the ASC. Wonder if it was one of them?Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'm appauled at what has been done to these medals!!! What the H**L was he thinking? Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Here's the gent who owned the originals: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=6I wonder if he was entitled to a 1903 Delhi Durbar and IGS 1908, bar NWF 1908? (Or thought he was entitled.)Could "Sy han" be "Durbar" by any chance - the engraving is very crude?Hello Michael,Thanks very much for the research. I have not had the time to research many of my more "legitimate" medals. Time for that when I retire (in the not too far future).Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 You know, as horrible as the destruction is, that is a bit of history there-too unique to be anything else but replacements. obviously done not for profit, but to show service of some sort. A really interesting little group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'm appauled at what has been done to these medals!!! What the H**L was he thinking? DocHello Doc,A former military friend of mine is fond of saying, "Only a sniper knows what goes through a man's mind". I worry about that boy at times! My own father felt he was entitled to an extra campaign star so he added it to his group. When the day comes that I inherit his medals I will be faced with the decision as to whether I should have one removed or leave his group of 5 as is. For the sake of future generations I think I should correct his decision so that no one can ask "What the H**L was he thinking?". I am a sucker for odd and courious items so I could not resist this mistreated pair.Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krigstrom Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 This is a part of history that I love, a lot of people didn?t care for there medals at all and this man made his own, wonderful.I love when people change there groups so a sport medal ore something comes before his military medal, maybe becous he felt more like a sports man then a former military man.And if your father felt he was entitled to another star I don?t think you should corect him, then you would fake his medal.To honour his memory you should keep them as they were.Sorry for my english, but I hope you understand me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 This is a part of history that I love, a lot of people didn?t care for there medals at all and this man made his own, wonderful.I love when people change there groups so a sport medal ore something comes before his military medal, maybe becous he felt more like a sports man then a former military man.And if your father felt he was entitled to another star I don?t think you should corect him, then you would fake his medal.To honour his memory you should keep them as they were.Sorry for my english, but I hope you understand me.Hello Krigstrom,I understand you completely and there is nothing wrong with your English. I also agree with what you are saying. My father has good reason for the addition of the medal. When the day comes that I inherit I will probably leave it as he intended. Out of respect rather than accurace to history.CheersBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Funnily enough I quite like, them, they're certainly different and add a little bit of additional interest to your collectionregards Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 Hi Alex,I thought so too, that's why I bought them. I have a fair number of BWM and Victory medals in my collection and after a while so many of the same medals (same except for the naming) it can strat to look a little repetitious. To the average person the inclusion of this pair to the collection make the viewing a bit more interesting and to the fellow collector it adds a bit of shock value. I also agree that it adds an interesting bit of additional history to my collection. Thanks to this amazing forum and its members I have gain information on the original recipient of this pair and a possible lead regarding the soldier who had them altered. I wish I had more free time to research my collection properly but that time will come when I retire. Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Brian I think the important thing here is, and personally I think you should be congratulated from rescueing these, most collectors or dealers may have looked at them and thought what a load of junk and they may well have ended in the trash can. Your keen eye for something different has indeed saved them, additionally the guy who's original medals they were and possibly the guy that changed them have not been consigned to the dustbin of history and forgotten, Hope you find more info on this interesting pairgood luckregardsAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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