Bundesrepublik Kapitän shoulderstraps - what era?

[webr55]

I have had these for many years. I suppose these are postwar items, but what branch and what time exactly?

Thanks

Chris

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

The back. If this is the wrong forum, please move it to the correct one.

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

Wish I knew. I've been looking for a set of HaPag Kommodore straps from the Weimar era... and have no clue what they'd have looked like.

Is there any clue on the back of the buttons that would give some hint about a date pre-or post-1945?

[webr55]

Wish I knew. I've been looking for a set of HaPag Kommodore straps from the Weimar era... and have no clue what they'd have looked like.

Is there any clue on the back of the buttons that would give some hint about a date pre-or post-1945?

No, nothing. They certainly look post-1945. But I have no idea whether these are Bundesmarine or merchant navy.

[fregatte]

No, nothing. They certainly look post-1945. But I have no idea whether these are Bundesmarine or merchant navy.

I can assure you they are definetely not Bundesmarine. They must be Handelsmarine, (Merchant navy) from the engineering branch.

[webr55]

I can assure you they are definetely not Bundesmarine. They must be Handelsmarine, (Merchant navy) from the engineering branch.

Thanks!

[NavalMark]

They are shurly not Hapag. The Hamburg-Amerika-Linie had uniform-regulations which were very close to those of the former imperial navy until 1945.

So the golden stripes on the shoulder-boards and also on the sleeves have had for all non-nautical officers a coloured underlay. Engineers from black velvet, medicals from cornflower blue velvet and so on. The coller of the blue jackets were covered with the same material and colour.

And, of cause, the buttons show always the HAPAG-shield on an anchor.

Regards

CSForrester

[Guest Rick Research]

I wonder if we are looking at the wrong Germany?

What has always puzzled me with these is that a Handelsmarine engineer could have full Kapit?n rating.

Could these be from the DDR's Merchant Marine?

[Taz]

Guys,

Here are some similar Handelsmarine boards.

First Hapag "steuerman" with the Hapag emblem in the button.

Pic Co Andre

Edited January 19, 2008 by Taz

[Taz]

And German Handelsmarine Oberleutnant zur See.

Very similar looking to the first ones Chris posted

[webr55]

And German Handelsmarine Oberleutnant zur See.

Very similar looking to the first ones Chris posted

Yes, these are the same. So that is West-German Handelsmarine. Thanks for posting!

Chris

[fregatte]

There is no Oberleutnant zur See in the Handelsmarine (merchant navy) two stripes is a second Mate or 2. Steuermann or 2. Offiziier.

regards

ffregatte

[Guest Rick Research]

So 4 stripes would not be a "real" Kapit?n (Ing) -- I cannot imagine what sort of merchant vessel would have a CAPTAIN in the engine room--- but something like the title, "Chief Engineer?"

These actually are more indications of POSITION than "rank"?

So a "Chief Steward" or "Chief Physician" would ALSO wear 4 stripes? EVERYBODY with 4 stripes?

[Taz]

There is no Oberleutnant zur See in the Handelsmarine (merchant navy) two stripes is a second Mate or 2. Steuermann or 2. Offiziier.

regards

ffregatte

Thanks fregatte,

It was decribed like that

Regards Eddie.

[Paul R]

They certainly look post-1945. But I have no idea whether these are Bundesmarine or merchant navy.

That is my thought as well.

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

Question about the buttons used by the Handlesmarine. Did they always have the Handelsmarine crest? The boards Webr55 posted has buttons that are definitely not from the DDR or the Bundesmarine. Both these organizations used an anchor with the cross piece at the top in a staright horizontal position. The buttons with the boards webr55 posted have the crosspiece on an angle.

Regards,

Gordon

[fregatte]

Gents,

Question about the buttons used by the Handlesmarine. Did they always have the Handelsmarine crest? The boards Webr55 posted has buttons that are definitely not from the DDR or the Bundesmarine. Both these organizations used an anchor with the cross piece at the top in a staright horizontal position. The buttons with the boards webr55 posted have the crosspiece on an angle.

Regards,

Gordon

Hwello,

each shipping company uses their own uniform, cap and also different buttons. There is no conformity in the Handelsmarine, like in the Deutsche Marine.

regards

Jurgen

[David S]

So 4 stripes would not be a "real" Kapit?n (Ing) -- I cannot imagine what sort of merchant vessel would have a CAPTAIN in the engine room--- but something like the title, "Chief Engineer?"

These actually are more indications of POSITION than "rank"?

So a "Chief Steward" or "Chief Physician" would ALSO wear 4 stripes? EVERYBODY with 4 stripes?

Even more complicated than that

Here is Merchant insignia from the 1920s or 30s

[David S]

Here are the ranks . . . Part 1

[David S]

and Part 2