Sir Tony?

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, this may be a difficult question to discuss seriously without it becoming a political rant, but I have a serious phaleristic question:

Of the 20 prime ministers of the 20th Century:

12 received the Garter

Douglas-Home had the Thistle already

4 declined it (Lloyd George, MacDonald, Chamberlin, Macmillan)

2 died too soon after leaving office (Campbell-Bannerman and Bonar Law)

And then there is Tony Blair?

Will he or won't he get the Garter? Or maybe the Thistle? Will he or won't he accept it? (And, an extra-credit question, will he be offered or accept a peerage?)

Only the Queen knows for sure, but maybe even she doesn't know?

I know I am asking us to gaze long and hard at our crystal balls, but go for it!

If this becomes any sort of political rant, from any side, I request this thread be locked.

[Richard Gordon]

No doubt that he will receive at least a life peerage. Of course he'll accept it, after all labour are the new conservatives and they enjoy all the power and trappings that go with it.

[Alex K]

No doubt that he will receive at least a life peerage. Of course he'll accept it, after all labour are the new conservatives and they enjoy all the power and trappings that go with it.

I Couldn't have put it better myself

regards

Alex

[Guest Rick Research]

I thought the Thistle was extinct?

[Ed_Haynes]

I thought the Thistle was extinct?

Oh, no, but if 007 gets his way and Scotland goes independent, it will probably be THEIRS.

The St. Patrick (for Ireland) is extinct as the last knights are that way too. Since recipients of the Star of India and Indian Empire still live (the last I heard), these orders are "alive", though no awards have been made since 1947.

Of "the great orders", two live (Garter, Thistle), two are dead (St. Patrick and Star of India).

Edited May 26, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[David S]

The KT consists of the Sovereign and 16 Knights.

The last KP holder died in 1974.

[Megan]

Extant United Kingdom orders are Garter, Thistle, Bath, Merit, St Michael & St George, Royal Victorian, & British Empire, also the Companion of Honour.

The Distinguished Service Order is actually a military decoration, despite its name! Likewise the Imperial Service Order stands the same service for mid-range grades of the Civil Service.

The Garter is traditional for Prime Ministers who retire from office, and is likely to be offered... we'll hear about it if Blair accepts.

[Ed_Haynes]

Megan's list is, of course, correct. Some orders call themselves "orders", some things that don't call themselves "orders" are effectively orders (for example the CH), and some things that call themselves "orders" aren't (for example the DSO). While no longer awarded, as some members still live (in India, not in the UK, on which all studies have oddly and deceptively focused) you can make a technical argument that The Most Exalted Order of the Star of India and The Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire are still "alive".

[Ed_Haynes]

I guess part of what I am asking is:

-- Does the Queen like him enough to expedite the Garter (depending on how much she really controls such things), whenever there is a vacancy? She moved quickly, and moved heaven and earth, and re-wrote the rules for Thatcher, but . . . for Tony??

-- Will Blair follow the tradition of Lloyd George, MacDonald, Chamberlin, and Macmillan and decline the honour or will he gobble it up? "New Labour" sure isn't Aneurin Bevan's party!

[Michael Johnson]

Megan's list is, of course, correct. Some orders call themselves "orders", some things that don't call themselves "orders" are effectively orders (for example the CH), and some things that call themselves "orders" aren't (for example the DSO). While no longer awarded, as some members still live (in India, not in the UK, on which all studies have oddly and deceptively focused) you can make a technical argument that The Most Exalted Order of the Star of India and The Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire are still "alive".

Don't forget The Order of the Crown of India. At the very least it is still held by Her Majesty the Queen.

[Ed_Haynes]

Don't forget The Order of the Crown of India. At the very least it is still held by Her Majesty the Queen.

So true. She may be the last recipient. I have been unable so far to trace any still living in India. Rajmata Jaipur never got it (and is rather snotty toward Mountbatten on that point, at least after several drinks).

[Megan]

HM The Queen has stopped wearing it, though... she used to back in the 1960s, but it hasn't come out for quite a while.

[DutchBoy]

The Order of the Garter is the sole gift of the Queen, so she doesn't have to consult the government about its awarding. One can only be awarded if there is a vacancy in the number of 25 knights. There is one vacancy at the moment, so he could get his in a hurry unless the Queen already has that spot earmarked for another deserving Brit. He won't be offered the Thistle because that is invariably awarded to people with a Scottish background.

A life peerage is a definite possibility (hereditary ones are no longer awarded except to Royals) but that is up to the (new) government to decide. I know Major has so far declined to accept one, but Tony might be more keen and be "kicked upstairs." Perhaps Lord Blair of Basra has a nice ring to it....?

[Ed_Haynes]

The Order of the Garter is the sole gift of the Queen, so she doesn't have to consult the government about its awarding. One can only be awarded if there is a vacancy in the number of 25 knights. There is one vacancy at the moment, so he could get his in a hurry unless the Queen already has that spot earmarked for another deserving Brit.

In theory, yes, but there is much unclarity over how the Garter happens. In reality, most would argue that the RVO is the only thing the "sovereign" really holds much power over.

He won't be offered the Thistle because that is invariably awarded to people with a Scottish background.

He is Scots. Born Edinburgh (though parents English), raised (by Scots) in Glasgow.

A life peerage is a definite possibility (hereditary ones are no longer awarded except to Royals) but that is up to the (new) government to decide. I know Major has so far declined to accept one, but Tony might be more keen and be "kicked upstairs." Perhaps Lord Blair of Basra has a nice ring to it....?

Lord Blair of Texas?

[Jacky]

Lord Blair of Utopia

[TS Allen]

If he moves quickly, he may be able to invade just in time to get Lord Blair of Tehran.

TS Allen

[Paul R]

Why would someone turn down these honors? Are there responsibilities tied to them?

[TS Allen]

Why would someone turn down these honors? Are there responsibilities tied to them?

Various reasons. There aren't really an extensive responsibilities as far as I know, but, some people do regret certain honours. Wasn't Churchill made Lord of Beaverbrook once and always said he regreted it?

TS Allen

[Jacky]

As far as I know,

Churchill never got peerage, he was offered the "Duchy of London",

but declined it because his son wanted to follow his father into politics,

Then peers were banned from the house of commons, thus due to his sons pressures, churchill denied the peerage and accepted instead knighthood.

But Lord Beaverbrook was closely linked with churchill's finest years in the second world-war, he served in his cabinet in various posts.

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Tony Farrell]

Considering what the man has done to time-honoured institutions, i.e. trashed them, it would be an absolute travesty for him to be either offered it or to accept it. I understand Bliar and his cohorts are not very popular with Auntie Betty & Co. Dodgy MBEs are one thing, but an offer of a KG is quite another. We'll see.

[i don't believe I've actually managed a post about Bliar without having an embolism.]