Imperial Russia Imperial Russian Orders for sale!

[Christophe]

I have a couple of basic questions for our Members living in Russia or often travelling there.

In many shops (specifically in Moscow, but maybe not only there...) you can find repros of Imperial Russia's Orders and Medals.

These are sold as new, no doubt about this, and are not destined to fool anyone.

They are made in what I would call semi-precious materials...

My questions :

1. Why to manufacture such copies ?

2. Where and by whom are they manufactured ?

3. In your opinion, who buys them ? And for what reason ?

4. Are they only "souvenirs" for foreigners (some museum shops sell them...) ?

I would be interested in knowing more about these...

Cheers.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

More...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

And more...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

Including repros of Imperial medals...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

Last one...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Jaybo]

Last one...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Hello Christophe,

Now that IS scary. I'm glad that I am through collecting Imperial Russian stuff!

Jaybo

[Chris Boonzaier]

What is the quality like?

COULD they fool collectors?

[Paul L Murphy]

Some of the medals are very good but the orders, ie anything with enamel, would never fool a collector who had ever come close to an original. They are made from cheap plated metal, cold enamel and paste stones and look more like costume jewels in terms of quality. They are for the tourist trade so I do not think we need to get worried about them being passed off as genuine, the quality just is not there.

[Carol I]

Does anyone have close-up images of these replicas?

[Ed_Haynes]

What is the quality like?

COULD they fool collectors?

Put a bad enough picture on eBay and see the suckers flock to them . . . ???

[usairforce]

All are real??!!

[Yankee]

Hi Christophe

I suspect a lot of those items you have displayed for us to view are simply to fool collectors and it works. There are some very high quality copies not just in the higher grades but the lower classes as well all in GOLD which are not pictured. The ones pictured do not seem to be a threat to advanced collectors but for one who is just starting out can be. I must say some of those copies look good especially the lower ranking orders from the picture that is. Unfortunately with the high prices on Russian items these days it pays for the forgers to go into this line of business. Hallmarks mean nothing for they fake that too, thanks for sharing those fotos.

Sincerely

Yankee

[Carol I]

Put a bad enough picture on eBay and see the suckers flock to them . . . ???

Are these badges on eBay from the same source?

Order of St. Andrew (collar)

[Carol I]

Order of St. Andrew

[Carol I]

Order of St. George

[Carol I]

Order of. St. Vladimir

These seem to have poor manufacturing quality which could not fool many collectors.

[Christophe]

These awards can't fool anyone, specifically for the big breast stars and plaques, and the medal as well...

For the lower classes orders, some are really nicely made.

But, they are sold here as copies or repro, and if you take them in hand, no mistery about them. The real concern might be, as we said, when they are sold via internet...

Cheers.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Edited July 22, 2007 by Christophe

[Christophe]

Close-up pic.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[eurorders]

If it is real brassy gold shiny and reflective like chrome gold, beware. True gold has a majestic but deeper and fuller lustre. Real ones show an age old look AND SO DOES THE RIBBON. 

[paul wood]

I am afraid these would not fool a man with a white stick and a labrador.

Paul

[Wessel Gordon]

This debate brings me to a few interesting question:

1. How does serious collectors feel about these copies?

2. Is it wrong to either buy or sell such a copy if both the buyer and seller knows and acknowledge the fact that the item in question is a copy and therefor have zero historical significance?

I hope I didn't stir up a hornets nest with these questions. I'm just curious to hear what people think. 

 

[eurorders]

I once bought a very nicely made copy of a mid 1900s Alexander Nevsky that was clearly a copy because I knew I'd probably never have discretionary funds of a real one. That's an example. I keep any copies I have of enameled orders in a separate case and place than actual ones are kept (in a remote vault). It makes me happy and theft is a nonissue. One also sometimes buys better made copies for study purposes and education. It is the FALSE presentation that irks so many of us, of course...

[Eric Gaumann]

On 29/03/2019 at 13:40, Wessel Gordon said:

1. How does serious collectors feel about these copies?

2. Is it wrong to either buy or sell such a copy if both the buyer and seller knows and acknowledge the fact that the item in question is a copy and therefor have zero historical significance?

1. Doesn't bother me.  Could be a place-holder or part of a display.  Heck, even Cosplay or whatever the kids are doing these days.

2.  Not wrong at all if both are aware.

Both are my opinion.

 

[Wessel Gordon]

Exactly my thoughts on the second question. Most of my slowly growing collection are copies, I just like the idea that I have a representation of whatever medal takes my fancy.

[Gunner 1]

This has been going on for some time. In 1979 I spoke at an international symposium in Warsaw and later visited a shop where around 30 women were hand painting copies of Russian and Polish orders and regimental insignia. I was told that they were for the collector market.