Some old paper from Lippe-Detmold...

[Solomon]

Hi gents,

here is a new highlight in my collection (no, it?s not christmas yet ):

It?s a original awarding document for honor cross of the house-order of Lippe-Detmold 1st class

This class was awarded 127 times between 1890 and 1918 as 1st class, and 10 times between 1905-1918 as "Grosskreuz" (Schwark).

But this document is a very special one...

The decorated person was a prince, who awarded it in June 1931 ...long after Leopold IV. of Lippe-Detmold resigned !!!!

I?ve no idea, who many 1st classes were awarded after 1918, because I haven?t any files in the archive of Detmold about that yet.

But I guess a number between 1-15 (without any proof)...

I hope you like it and I?m interested in your opinions

Best regards

Solomon

[Solomon]

And there is another interesting detail on that document at its top:

The word "regierender" (rouling) is missing.

I scanned another document belonging to the shown one, which is from 1916...before his resignment.

It?s quite interesting and a proof that special award-documents existed after 1918...

Solomon

[Ulsterman]

very cool.

[Guest Rick Research]

Unless we can find the family's post-abdication rolls (their own archive, not the state one?) we may never know how many "more" were awarded after 1918. It's interesting to see documentation of the dynastic awards which continued until 1935.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Very nice indeed.

Is it a single doc?

Thanks

Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

Given the sensitivity about somebody who may still well be alive, a discreet check of the wonderful Online Gotha

http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/gotha.htm

will probably reveal that the dynastic recipient was a kid, who falling between the wars for the age at which these were handed out in The Old Days may never have had anything else to wear rattling around one Schloss or another.

[Deruelle]

Very instructive document. It's like Saxe Coburg Gotha. indeed the Prince continue after abdication to decerne medals.

Great document Franz

Christophe

[Solomon]

@ Rick

Thanks for the link, I found the recipient easily

But it?s quite interesting that he wasn?t a kid when he awarded the honor cross (older than 21 years...)

...I?ve no idea why, he got it so "late".

@ Chris

The answer is yes and no

It?s the only document for this person and I?m quite sure he didn?t awarded many more (or even one more order).

But I have also the document, also signed by Leopold IV., for his parents...becoming the title of "Durchlaucht" and a typewritter-written copy of it.

It?s from time of WW1 and detail I also showed, is from this document.

Greetings

Solomon

[Solomon]

Hi gents,

last week I got something from this group

The first one is the document in which Leopold IV. (again signed by himself) allowed

the marriage of the Prince, mentioned in the awarding document I showed you, with

a Princess.

(Leopold IV. was asked for his "Konsens" = consent...)

It?s from 1928...quite interesting, that he was still asked

[Solomon]

...and the other thing were the statutes for the house-order Lippe-Detmold, in their latest form of November, 9th 1918.

The cover...

[Solomon]

...and a scan of the change of 1918 (the other paragraphs I didn?t scan).

This change is quite important for my award-document

Only the members of the (ruling) house of Lippe-Biesterfeld were allowed to wear the HO 1st class

as "Grosskreuz" at the "Cordon" (=ribbon).

Members of the house of Lippe-Weissenfeld had to wear the "normal" 1st class.

It?s really interesting that the statutes were changed short before the resignment of Leopold IV. (von Lippe-Biesterfeld)

Hope you enjoy it like me

Best regards

Solomon

[Guest Rick Research]

Man, he was BUSY those last two days of the war!

In many cases, 25% of any given decoration ever bestowed was handed out (tossed out the Schloss windows? ) 9-12 November 1918!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stogieman]

Solomon, wonderful & rare paper indeed. Very interesting to see this activity (and respect) still being shown towards the monarchy(ies) post 1918

[Mike Dwyer]

It?s from 1928...quite interesting, that he was still asked

I believe you might find that this still goes on today in some former ruling houses, or at least problems arise from family members who do not follow the house law. I remember reading recently that the current head of the royal house of Prussia, Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen, was involved in a lawsuit filed by his uncle, Friedrich Wilhelm Prinz von Preussen. The previous head of the royal house, Louis Ferdinand Prinz von Preussen, Georg Friedrich's grandfather, named George Friedrich his heir (Georg Friedrich's father was killed in a Bundeswehr training accident when he was a baby) because of Friedrich Wilhelm's several marriages outside the house law. Friedrich Wilhelm seemed to feel that the headship of the family should pass strictly by primogeniture and he should have control of the family's money and his marriages shouldn't matter in this day and time.

There's also an ongoing family dispute on who is the "real" head of the House of Romanov, all based on whether a certain marriage was valid under the house law. Some people say Prince Nicholas Romanovich Romanov is the head of the house, others say Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is the head.

I guess you have to keep up with all this, just in case those pesky citizens might ask you to come sit on the throne again!

[Solomon]

Oooops, I just saw that I haven?t showed one document yet...

This document is probabely the key for the answer, why Leopold IV. has been asked about the marriage.

This document is for the parents of "my" Prince.

It?s from 1916 and with this document his father and mother became the title "Durchlaucht".

More important is, that his parents and their children ("Agnate") were raised to heir apparent ("Thronfolger")

Weird rulls of aristrocracy...

Edited September 9, 2007 by Solomon

[Solomon]

...and the original document...

[Solomon]

...and the other site...