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my first reaserched group


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hi all,

im new to this forum and thought you would like to see my first researched Russian group,the group only consists of 2 awards (order of red star and order glory3 with award book ).I bought this group a few years ago for a very small outlay and had no idea who or what the awards were for (other than they were for gallantry).My new partner got her eye on them a while back and asked if i could reaserch them as a project, a couple of weeks later we had the reults and were very suprised to find they were awarded to a "combat medic"...a woman !!.

Any comments or info any of you can give about "medics" and awards to women in the red army would be greatfully recieved.

Both me and my partner are still totaly blown away at how brave these people were.

whispy.

TELBA_AWRD_CARD.rtf

TELBA_ORDER_GLORY3_CITATION.rtf

TELBA_RED_STAR_CITATION.rtf

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Documents to T. M. Telba

1. Award Sheet

Last Name, Name, and Patrionymic: Telba, Tatyana Mikhailona

Rank: Corporal

Duty Position: Medic, 9 Rifle Company, 467 Rifle Regiment, 81 ?Kalininkovichskii? Rifle Division

Award Application for the Order of the Patriotic War II Class

Birthdate: 1924

Nationality: Russian

Party Membership: n/a

In Combat: since 1943, Belorussian Front, 1 Ukrainian Front

Wounds or Contusions: wounded 17.10.44 by shell fragments in both legs at the village of Svidkichka, Czechoslovakia

In Red Army: since 1943

Inducted by: Kirov Regional Military Commissariat, Kirov Oblast

Awards: none

Home of Record: Kirov Oblast, city of Lutskinsk, Kara-(?) St., Bldg. 58 ? father Mikhail Ilich Telba

Short Description of Combat Feat or Accomplishments

During the regiment?s offensive in mountainous, forested terrain against the German invaders, Comrade Telba displayed bravery and courage.

Since 12 October 1944 Comrade Telba has worked as medic in a rifle company during the attack, disregarding enemy artillery, mortar and small arms fire and has moved from one edge of the battlefield to the other with her medical bag, rendering medical aid to wounded soldiers and commanders.

From 12 to 17 October 1944 she carried off 27 soldiers and commanders with their weapons from the battlefield.

On 17 October 1944 while evacuating a wounded soldier, Comrade Telba was herself wounded.

For bravery and courage displayed in combat against the German invaders, Comrade Telba is deserving of the Order of the Patriotic War II Class.

Signed Commander, 467 Rifle Regiment, Colonel Rybchenko on 7 November 1944

Recommended downgrade to Order of the Red Star by Commander, 81 Rifle Division, Colonel Matuk(?) on 11 November 1944

Award Card

Last name: Telba

First name and patrionymic: Tatyana Mikhailovna

Rank: Reserve Sergeant

Sex: Female

Birthdate: 1924

Birthplace: Kurgan-Solotnoi

Party membership: n/a

Education: elementary

Nationality: Russian

In Red Army: 2.1942-12.1945

Place of service and duty position: 81st Rifle Division, 467th Rifle Regiment as a medic; 67th Rifle Corps, 81st Rifle Division, 467th Rifle Regiment as a Medic Instructor

Place of service at present: Troop Unit #09666 ? instructor, city of Karsanov, Sakhalin Oblast

Home of record: Russian Federation, Sakhalin Oblast, Karsanov, Serafzhimovich St. Bldg 45b

Awards

Award Number Awarder

Red Star 3.574.397 81 Rifle Division dated 25.11.44

Glory III 730.728 67 Rifle Corps dated 6.4.45

Verified 3 February 1967

hope this works

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3. Award Sheet

Last Name, Name, and Patrionymic: Telba, Tatyana Mikhailona

Rank: Sergeant

Duty Position: Medic Instructor, 4 Rifle Company, 467 Order of Suvorov Rifle Regiment, 81 ?Kalininkovichskii? Rifle Division, 38 Army, 4 Ukrainian Front

Award Application for the Order of the Patriotic War II Class

Birthdate: 1924

Nationality: Russian

Party Membership: n/a

In Combat: since 1944 on the 1 and 4 Ukrainian Fronts

Wounds or Contusions: wounded 17.10.44 and 8.5.44

In Red Army: since 1943

Inducted by: Kirov Regional Military Commissariat, Kirov Oblast

Awards: Order of the Red Star by Order 185/N of the 81 Rifle Divsiion dated 25.11.44

Home of Record: Kirov Oblast, city of Lutskinsk, Karl Tibknekhta St., Bldg. 58 ? father Mikhail Ilich Telba

Short Description of Combat Feat or Accomplishments

During the regiment?s two nights (10-12 March 1945) of vicious fighting southwest of Strumen (Krakow, Poland), Comrade Telba removed from the battlefield and rendered medical assistance to 38 wounded soldiers and commanders under heavy artillery and mortar fire. She also managed to evacuate their personal weapons.

Comrade Telba is deserving of the Order of the Patriotic War II Class.

Signed Commander, 467 Order of Suvorov Rifle Regiment, Colonel Rybchenko on 17 March 1945

Endorsed Commander, 81 Rifle Division, Colonel Matusevin on 21 March 1945

Downgraded to Order of Glory III Class by Commander, 67 Rifle Corps, General-Major Shmygo on 6 April 1945

Awarded Order of Glory III class by Order 036 of the 67 Rifle Corps dated 6.4.45

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Very interesting. Thanks!

Makes me think back to my first Soviet medal, a solo Glory III to First Sergeant of the Guards Alexandra Vasilyevna Grebenschchikova. See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2329

Hi there Ed, we read the post about your Glory III before we got the research back (was supprised it only took a week to get it from Alexei),but we never dreamed we would have a similar citation to yours.Its interesting to note that both women were down graded (its a pity as they were hard won awards )

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A Female Order Of Glory recipient?!?!?! :jumping::jumping: Lets see the metals.

BTW, I cannot get your links to open up.

Paul

Hi Paul, i would love to post some pics of the group but i dont have a camera at the moment,will try to sort somthing out soon tho.

Whispy

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There may be a pattern here. Perhaps most Female Comrades got snubbed.

But that Red Star and Glory 3 are TERRIFIC-- an OPW2 could have been awarded for literally anything, or nothing depending on the recipient. But a Glory 3 would have meant something to anyone who saw it being worn. :beer:

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Hi Paul, i would love to post some pics of the group but i dont have a camera at the moment,will try to sort somthing out soon tho.

Whispy

Thank you for posting the narrative. It is a great set of documents. No worries on the photos. When you get them up, I will see them!

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Hi all,

thanks for the comments and congrats concerning my first researced group.Im hoping somone can answer a few qustions that are puzzling me, first,there are no mention of any campaign medals ? she must of been entiteled to at least 1 or maybe 2?

also does anyone have any info about the actions of her regiment in which she won her decorations ?

once again MANY THANKS to all fo your comments.

whispy

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Its intresting she was down graded twice :o

Dear Vic,

I don't see the Glory 3cl as a "downgrading" in the meaning of "prestigue" among comrades.

Her heroic deeds at the battlefield matched much more to the specific regulations of the Order of Glory, than to a OPW 2cl and - as Rick already pointed out - a Glory 3cl had been more prestigious for a NCO, than a OPW 2cl, due to the fact OPWs (as RSs) are not so thightly linked (in their regulations) to personal heroic deeds at the direct line of fire.

Anyhow, a RS + Glory 3cl are very typical awards for NCOs, who showed heroism.

Best regards :beer:

Christian

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Dear Vic,

I don't see the Glory 3cl as a "downgrading" in the meaning of "prestigue" among comrades.

Her heroic deeds at the battlefield matched much more to the specific regulations of the Order of Glory, than to a OPW 2cl and - as Rick already pointed out - a Glory 3cl had been more prestigious for a NCO, than a OPW 2cl, due to the fact OPWs (as RSs) are not so thightly linked (in their regulations) to personal heroic deeds at the direct line of fire.

Anyhow, a RS + Glory 3cl are very typical awards for NCOs, who showed heroism.

Best regards :beer:

Christian

Hi Christian,

Thanks for the explanation, but what I realy meant was that if those fitt better why was nt she put in for them :unsure:

Order of Victory

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Whispy,

At the moment I don't have exact numbers of women medics. The number will probably be very high. The Soviet union used women very effectively. Some 2,000 were snipers. I'll have numbers as soon as I get the inter-library loan from the National Institute of Health. VERY NICE Group!!!

:beer: Doc

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hi,

just wanted to say how much were apreciating the comments and info you guys have given us :cheers: .

Also "Doc" if you would like to use my group for your book on Medics,i would be happy to send you the document scans and(when i get a camera) pics of the group with the award book. :cheers:

whispy

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Nominated for and received awards apparently suffered from some sort of quota, with what may have been perceived as "better" awards being held back for Preferred Comrades. After all, a staff lounge lizard Comrade Major would like a Patriotic War 2nd Class very much, but if that month's allotment was already handed out to those Inferior NCO Comrades, what then? An NCO could get a Glory, but not an Exalted Comrade. So..... :rolleyes:

Campaign Medals were not noted on the ARC because she was back in civilian life and all that had come through yet-- as of that day-- were her decorations. Perfectly normal. She was GONE and perhaps even her old units no longer existed. Took years sometimes for catch up. Chances are they would NEVER be added to the ARC down at the local Veterans Commissariat, so without having a complete group, all you can go by is where her units were.

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hi,

just wanted to say how much were apreciating the comments and info you guys have given us :cheers: .

Also "Doc" if you would like to use my group for your book on Medics,i would be happy to send you the document scans and(when i get a camera) pics of the group with the award book. :cheers:

whispy

Whispy,

Thank You!! I would appreciate that!!! I'm slowly gathering citations and award groups for the book. Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Many Thanks,

Doc

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Nominated for and received awards apparently suffered from some sort of quota, with what may have been perceived as "better" awards being held back for Preferred Comrades. After all, a staff lounge lizard Comrade Major would like a Patriotic War 2nd Class very much, but if that month's allotment was already handed out to those Inferior NCO Comrades, what then? An NCO could get a Glory, but not an Exalted Comrade. So..... :rolleyes:

Campaign Medals were not noted on the ARC because she was back in civilian life and all that had come through yet-- as of that day-- were her decorations. Perfectly normal. She was GONE and perhaps even her old units no longer existed. Took years sometimes for catch up. Chances are they would NEVER be added to the ARC down at the local Veterans Commissariat, so without having a complete group, all you can go by is where her units were.

thanks Rik,

your input and views make a lot of sence and have opened my eyes as to a little of the polatics behind the awarding of decorations etc in the Russian military.Paul Schmitt did the translations of my documents and he told me the awards were most likely a "catch up" and were probably issued in 1967 !!

So basically she would have been entitled to a "Victory over Germany" and the rest depended on where and how long her unit was deployed ? (Hmm....me thinks more research is on the cards )

whispy

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Whispy,

Thank You!! I would appreciate that!!! I'm slowly gathering citations and award groups for the book. Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Many Thanks,

Doc

DOC,

i can send you scans of the documents when ever you need them but pics of the group might take a little longer as im still sorting a camera out :cheers:

whispy

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