Prussian Order of The Red Eagle

[Henke]

Hi all!

Anyone know if there is a good book or site out there that can help me with dating and finding the makers of this award?

Best Regards

Henke

[Alex K]

Hi Henke welcome to the friendly forum. This link might help with the lower end of the award.

regards

Alex

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17990

[Alex K]

another good site for imperial including the red eagle is here

http://www.medalnet.net/The_Pour_le_Merite.htm

Edited August 14, 2007 by Alex K

[Henke]

Thank you so much for your warm welcome and the links, however they didnt help me really. It would still be a guess for me . What I can tell is that both are of the newer type with pebbled arms.

This one comes with a Box and a miniature, however I dont think that miniatures was issued togehter with the order or? My guess would be that its a later buy. The MM on the miniature reads J. Godet & Sohn. The order has a MM on it 6 o?clock arm, it reads J.H.W

On this one I cant find any MM at all:

Thank you so much for your time

Best Regards

Henke

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Henke:

Greetings to you. What would you specifically like to know about your pieces? Perhaps I can be of some assistance. By the way, "J.H.W." stands for jeweler J.H. Werner of Berlin.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Edited August 16, 2007 by Schie?platzmeister

[Henke]

Hello Henke:

Greetings to you. What would you specifically like to know about your pieces? Perhaps I can be of some assistance. By the way, "J.H.W." stands for jeweler J.H. Werner of Berlin.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hi & Thanks

I was curious about the age and the makes of these 2 crosses. When it comes to the age it looks like they are both "newer" versions since they have pebbled arms. Then with your help I now know the maker of one of them. But still curious the find the maker of the other one if that is possible.

Best Regards

Henke

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello again Henke:

You already identified the maker of the other cross as J. Godet u. Sohn of Berlin. Godet was one of the major House-Jewelers for Prussia. The quality of their wares was always excellent.

You are right, these are 4th Class Red Eagle Order crosses of the "last" type. This type has stippled arms and was awarded from approximately 1879-1890 to 1918. There were probably tens of thousands of these awarded, I have never seen an exact number listed. There were also numerous firms that made these badges.

Your pieces are especially nice. The badge with the case and paper carton is wonderful. These paper cartons were usually thrown away by the recipient. The miniature by Godet is also very nice. It appears as though it may be a "Prinzen" piece. Most of these were not really for Princes, but were deluxe-grade miniatures for wear. Standard miniatures were 16mm in size. Anything 20mm or larger, and smaller than a full-sized badge, could be considered a Prinzen piece. The Godet Prinzen pieces are real gems. What are the dimensions of your pieces?

Congratulations on owning these wonderful examples. Pieces like these have been commanding rather healthy prices on the market as of late.

Friendly greetings from the USA!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hi & Thanks

I was curious about the age and the makes of these 2 crosses. When it comes to the age it looks like they are both "newer" versions since they have pebbled arms. Then with your help I now know the maker of one of them. But still curious the find the maker of the other one if that is possible.

Best Regards

Henke

[Henke]

Thank you so much for your kind words!

Hope that you forgive me that my english isnt that good but I?ll try to get along anyway .

Well the only thing market Godet is the miniature. Sorry to say my camera isnt that good to get the small details on it. The button on the miniature reads J.Godet & Sohn in a "halfbow" at the top of it. In the middle there is som sort of mark that might be the company logo? Over it it reads KGL.Hofjuweliere, that I know stands for Royal Jeweler. Underneath is says Berlin. The size is 18mm both for the cross and the button.

This miniture come together with the cased Order, the cased order is the one that is marked with JHW. So the miniture is a seperat buy for the former owner.

What I am curious about is the other order, the one without the ribbon. This one is unmarked but I was wondering if there is any chance to still label a maker for it. Maybe based on the eagle/cross design.

Im thankfull for all the help Im getting and any further help I might get.

Best Regards

Henke

Edited August 17, 2007 by Henke

[Wild Card]

Hello Gentlemen,

Henke, I also extend greetings. That is a super little collection that you have there. Above all, for the reasons pointed out by SPM, I am most taken by the cardboard carton. You just do not see them around - very rare.

SPM, with regard to the miniature, you have me recalling a very old cigarette commercial about ?a silly millimeter?. What I am getting at is that I think that we have a miniature, not prinzen, cross here. You are absolutely right when you point out that 16 mm is the standard size for miniatures, at least from about 1850 on.

In this case though, at 18 mm, we have a large type of miniature specifically produced to be worn singularly from a button hole device. Below is what I also would consider to be a large (21.53mm x 21.36mm) type Red Eagle 3rd class on a button hole device by Godet.

[Wild Card]

With regard to prinzen pieces, I think that they were created mainly to be worn in groups and of course on uniforms; as opposed to miniatures which, as far as I know, were never worn on uniforms. Below is what I would consider a prinzen Red Eagle 4th class which measures 27.04 mm x 27.02 mm. Please, for now, let?s not get into ?reduction? pieces.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Schießplatzmeister]

With regard to prinzen pieces, I think that they were created mainly to be worn in groups and of course on uniforms; as opposed to miniatures which, as far as I know, were never worn on uniforms. Below is what I would consider a prinzen Red Eagle 4th class which measures 27.04 mm x 27.02 mm. Please, for now, let?s not get into ?reduction? pieces.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

Hello Wildcard:

Thank you for your astute observations regarding these pieces and the very fine examples shown. I especially like the group with the RAO/SEHO!

You are absolutely correct of course, miniatures were never worn in uniform, so, the manner of wear, and not the size, dictates what a piece really was (i.e.: "miniature", "Prinzen", or "reduction"). Further, as you pointed out, an 18mm, 20mm, or larger example could be worn as a miniature when out of uniform. I personally really like the "Prinzen" or "reduction" pieces.

Hello again Henke:

It is difficult to be certain regarding the manufacturer of a 4th Class RAO badge of the last type if the piece is not marked. There were simply too many manufactures to be certain. Also, I find it probable that each firm had more than one employee who painted RAO centers, so even within a firm, there were probably very slight eagle variations. Each piece is truly a work of art! I will point out however, that our very own Medalnet has done a superb job in comparing examples of the eagles of 3rd Class RAO badges by manufacturer on his website.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Naxos]

Hello,

the cardboard carton spells Rother (red) - this way of writing was changed officially in 1901 to Roter.

So we can say that at least the carton is from before 1902.

Hardy

Edited August 18, 2007 by Naxos

[saschaw]

the cardboard carton spells Rother (red) - this way of writing was changed officially in 1901 to Roter.

So we can say that at least the carton is from before 1902.

Hmm, I'd be not to sure they changed that fast in such issues, for some people, even with officially things, it took wayyy longer ...

[RAO]

Hmm, I'd be not to sure they changed that fast in such issues, for some people, even with officially things, it took wayyy longer ...

I think it immediately changed because it only a paper sticker concern. Greeting Mike

[Henke]

Thank you all for your help and suggestions!

I also do think that the miniature is supposed to be weared in a button hole. The button size looks like a perfect fit for this.

So once more thank you all, now Im of to look for a 3rd class RAO

Best Regards

Henke