Soviet orders of the men that lead

[bifter]

How many orders are there of the leaders of socialism? Are there pictures available of them all?

1) Order of Lenin

2) Order of Stalin

3) Order of George Dmitrov

4) Order of Ho Chi Minh

5) Order of Karl Marx

6) Order of Che Guvara

7) Order of Kim il Sun

8) Order of Suche Bataar

How many more? Any pics of them side by side? I love these ones; but only of the 'leaders' that have led & taught; folk like Anna Betancourt & Frank Pais should be included, but they were not the big leaders so i cannot put them in my personal Frame of Fame. I would love to get all these in a nice big frame.

[Paul R]

Was the Order of Stalin an official award? I did not think so.

[seb16trs]

please add the order of Klement Gotwald for former CSSR...

[hunyadi]

There was none for Hungary - the closest is the Matyas Rakosi Medal of Merit (for education)

[seb16trs]

Poland didn't follow this tradition too; their supreme order was the "Builders of People's Poland".

Same thing about Romania: Tudor Vladimirescu was a national hero in the fighting against Ottoman power, but the dedicated order was not the most important of the romanian system. Maybe the Star of Romania was this supreme order, but I'm not sure at all.

Albania used a national hero, non-communist, for his Skanderberg order.

We forgot about Cuba: the supreme order was the order of Jose Marti, another national hero for independance.

Edited August 16, 2007 by seb16trs

[Christian Zulus]

Was the Order of Stalin an official award? I did not think so.

Dear Paul,

yes & no !

There had been the project of an Order of Stalin during Stalin's lifetime, there are some prototypes around, but Stalin suspended the Order and decided, that the comrades should issue such an order after his death. As we know from history, his "comrades" didn't issue that beautyful order . The Order of Stalin should have ranked above or below the Order of Lenin.

We have an (rather dull & ugly) Order of Stalin issued in the RF by Miss Sazhi Umalatova from Georgia. He can buy that award for a few bucks and it is not an official award. Here is the GMIC-Umalatova-thread with some scans of the Order of Stalin: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20823

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Friedrich Engels & Teddy Th?lmann

Gentlemen,

I guess, that the DDR (GDR) had awards dealing with Engels and Th?lmann ?

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Andropov-Medal

Gentlemen,

as far, as I know, the CCCP or RF issued a Andropov-Medal for meritorious workers in the secret service ?

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

It is also useful, I think, to overlay these with history and realise the chronology of their creation:

1930 - Order of Lenin

1945 - Order of Sukhbaatar

1950 - Order of George Dimitrov

1953 - Order of Clement Gottwald

1953 - Order of Karl Marx

post-1967? - Order of Che Guvara

post-1969? - Order of Ho Chi Minh

1970 - Friendirch Engels Prize (as a "prize" does it belong?)

1972 - Order of Kim Il Sung

Others might be added, but they're a "reach"? Uncompleted projects like the Order of Stalin or the Order of Muhammad Tarzi don't belong?

Edited August 18, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Ed,

if the "Friedrich-Engels-Prize" included a medal, then he should be listed.

I also would include the "Order of Stalin"-project, where we have a number of (rather similar looking) prototypes AND it had been Stalin's will to have that order issued after his death. So it would be a disgrace against comrade Stalin will, not to include his order in the list . There is a comrehensive book about that order, but only in Russian language .

What about Th?lmann- & Andropov-Medals - I think, there are any ?

Best regards

Christian

It is also useful, I think, to overlay these with history and realise the chronology of their creation:

1930 - Order of Lenin

1945 - Order of Sukhbaatar

1950 - Order of George Dimitrov

1953 - Order of Clement Gottwald

1953 - Order of Karl Marx

post-1967? - Order of Che Guvara

post-1969? - Order of Ho Chi Minh

1970 - Friendirch Engels Prize (as a "prize" does it belong?)

1972 - Order of Kim Il Sung

Others might be added, but they're a "reach"? Uncompleted projects like the Order of Stalin or the Order of Muhammad Tarzi don't belong?

[seb16trs]

Friedrich Engels & Teddy Th?lmann

Gentlemen,

I guess, that the DDR (GDR) had awards dealing with Engels and Th?lmann ?

Best regards

Christian

hello, Friedrich Engels has his dedicated Prize, for military works; an award declined in 3 classes. E.Th?lmann didn't have his medal but only badges for FDJ organisation. We see Thalmann face on the "Fighter against fascism" state medal.

[seb16trs]

Andropov-Medal

Gentlemen,

as far, as I know, the CCCP or RF issued a Andropov-Medal for meritorious workers in the secret service ?

Best regards

Christian

I'm not sure it is an offical awward...

[Ed_Haynes]

We may need to define "leader", otherwise we'll have to contend with the whole stable of Cuban awards named after EVERYONE.

If we go with the medals in the Lenin-Sukhbaatar-Dimitrov-Gottwald-Marx-Mart? (not Guevera)-Ho-Kim series (things that actually existed and were awarded), then we have a useful comparative set of things in the same phaleristic ecological niche. Otherwise . . . .

The only ones I can offer for the compartative visual gallery:

[seb16trs]

We may need to define "leader", otherwise we'll have to contend with the whole stable of Cuban awards named after EVERYONE.

If we go with the medals in the Lenin-Sukhbaatar-Dimitrov-Gottwald-Marx-Mart? (not Guevera)-Ho-Kim series (things that actually existed and were awarded), then we have a useful comparative set of things in the same phaleristic ecological niche. Otherwise . . . .

The only ones I can offer for the compartative visual gallery:

Ed is right, otherwise we'll get lost in the jungle of "prizes" of all kinds...

[Belaruski]

In that case only Marx and Engels, the rest are really followers

[seb16trs]

In that case only Marx and Engels, the rest are really followers

not really, because we're trying to gather state orders dedicated to first leaders. Engels has its prize, which is a specific category in the german award system... And Engels is forever second after Marx, so...

Edited August 19, 2007 by seb16trs

[Christian Zulus]

In that case only Marx and Engels, the rest are really followers

Dear Belaruski,

getting down to world history of the (authentic) socialist movement, there are 4 unique persons (the rest might be "followers"):

Marx - Engels - Lenin - Stalin

Order (DDR) - Prize (DDR) - Order (CCCP) - Order-Project (CCCP)

Best regards

Christian

[Belaruski]

I think Stalin was the firts person who united the concept of Marxism Leninism as a theoretical and practical concept. Lenin wouldn't have used the term Leninism! (The same is true of Stalin 'Stalinism').

People like Enver Hoxha, Kim il Sung and even Mao still talked of Marxism Leninism following the definitions laid out by Stalin in his book 'Problems of Leninism'.

So I think that the list ought to be Marx, Engels, and Lenin.

With significant contributions from Stalin et al!

but I think we digress...

Oh and as a thought is there a Chinese Order of Mao?

Edited August 20, 2007 by Belaruski

[Ed_Haynes]

To try to get us back toward the topic . . .

. . . is there a Chinese Order of Mao?

No, never. Well, at least not yet.

[seb16trs]

I think Stalin was the firts person who united the concept of Marxism Leninism as a theoretical and practical concept. Lenin wouldn't have used the term Leninism! (The same is true of Stalin 'Stalinism').

People like Enver Hoxha, Kim il Sung and even Mao still talked of Marxism Leninism following the definitions laid out by Stalin in his book 'Problems of Leninism'.

So I think that the list ought to be Marx, Engels, and Lenin.

With significant contributions from Stalin et al!

but I think we digress...

Oh and as a thought is there a Chinese Order of Mao?

Stalin proposed a vulgate from the marxist-leninist doctrina... I believe Lenin was the first to engage marxism in a successfull revolutionnary practice, as many researchers outlined his opportunism to create a revolution in the least developped counrtry of europe, Russia.

[Ed_Haynes]

We have strayed badly

[Belaruski]

Sorry Ed.

However 'leaders of Socialism' is a broad term. (And certainly a contentious one).

[Ed_Haynes]

Agreed. (Why is there no Order of M. N. Roy??) The original subject line may have had problems, but I thinbk most knew what was intended. "Men that lead"? Fake lead-cast eBay medals? People with heavy feet? Contemporary leaders of the socialist world (a short list, I fear - and none of them have orders in THEIR names, yet)? Etc. . . . ?????

But, in terms of phaleristics, I would hope we can agree that the orders of Lenin-Sukhbaatar-Dimitrov-Gottwald-Marx-Mart?-Ho-Kim occupy a simnilar level and serve similar functions across countries. This is no comment on the relative and comparative ideological and philosophical importance of these individuals, ranging as it does from the major to the insignificant (and I'll not name names - it would be irrelevant to this discussion).

If we can comparatively study things like the hero stars or the "Red Banner" awards (which we should, and have, and it is great fun), then these orders seem to occupy the same PHALERISTIC ecological niche and layer. This has nothing (well, very very little) to do with their assertable status as great thinkers and great leaders (or not)!

Edited August 20, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Belaruski]

Very good post Ed.

(I wonder why the Chinese never made a Mao order..)

[Ed_Haynes]

I wonder why the Chinese never made a Mao order..)

They believed that orders, and medals, and even ranks were anti-egalitarian and, therefore, anti-socialist. Maybe they had a point?

Even the early stuff for the Civil War and the Anti-Japanese War fell out of use.