bifter Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 How many orders are there of the leaders of socialism? Are there pictures available of them all?1) Order of Lenin2) Order of Stalin3) Order of George Dmitrov4) Order of Ho Chi Minh5) Order of Karl Marx6) Order of Che Guvara7) Order of Kim il Sun8) Order of Suche Bataar How many more? Any pics of them side by side? I love these ones; but only of the 'leaders' that have led & taught; folk like Anna Betancourt & Frank Pais should be included, but they were not the big leaders so i cannot put them in my personal Frame of Fame. I would love to get all these in a nice big frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Was the Order of Stalin an official award? I did not think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 please add the order of Klement Gotwald for former CSSR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 There was none for Hungary - the closest is the Matyas Rakosi Medal of Merit (for education) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 (edited) Poland didn't follow this tradition too; their supreme order was the "Builders of People's Poland". Same thing about Romania: Tudor Vladimirescu was a national hero in the fighting against Ottoman power, but the dedicated order was not the most important of the romanian system. Maybe the Star of Romania was this supreme order, but I'm not sure at all.Albania used a national hero, non-communist, for his Skanderberg order.We forgot about Cuba: the supreme order was the order of Jose Marti, another national hero for independance. Edited August 16, 2007 by seb16trs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Was the Order of Stalin an official award? I did not think so.Dear Paul,yes & no !There had been the project of an Order of Stalin during Stalin's lifetime, there are some prototypes around, but Stalin suspended the Order and decided, that the comrades should issue such an order after his death. As we know from history, his "comrades" didn't issue that beautyful order . The Order of Stalin should have ranked above or below the Order of Lenin.We have an (rather dull & ugly) Order of Stalin issued in the RF by Miss Sazhi Umalatova from Georgia. He can buy that award for a few bucks and it is not an official award. Here is the GMIC-Umalatova-thread with some scans of the Order of Stalin: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20823Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Friedrich Engels & Teddy Th?lmannGentlemen,I guess, that the DDR (GDR) had awards dealing with Engels and Th?lmann ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Andropov-MedalGentlemen,as far, as I know, the CCCP or RF issued a Andropov-Medal for meritorious workers in the secret service ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) It is also useful, I think, to overlay these with history and realise the chronology of their creation:1930 - Order of Lenin1945 - Order of Sukhbaatar1950 - Order of George Dimitrov1953 - Order of Clement Gottwald1953 - Order of Karl Marxpost-1967? - Order of Che Guvarapost-1969? - Order of Ho Chi Minh1970 - Friendirch Engels Prize (as a "prize" does it belong?)1972 - Order of Kim Il SungOthers might be added, but they're a "reach"? Uncompleted projects like the Order of Stalin or the Order of Muhammad Tarzi don't belong? Edited August 18, 2007 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Dear Ed,if the "Friedrich-Engels-Prize" included a medal, then he should be listed.I also would include the "Order of Stalin"-project, where we have a number of (rather similar looking) prototypes AND it had been Stalin's will to have that order issued after his death. So it would be a disgrace against comrade Stalin will, not to include his order in the list . There is a comrehensive book about that order, but only in Russian language .What about Th?lmann- & Andropov-Medals - I think, there are any ?Best regards ChristianIt is also useful, I think, to overlay these with history and realise the chronology of their creation:1930 - Order of Lenin1945 - Order of Sukhbaatar1950 - Order of George Dimitrov1953 - Order of Clement Gottwald1953 - Order of Karl Marxpost-1967? - Order of Che Guvarapost-1969? - Order of Ho Chi Minh1970 - Friendirch Engels Prize (as a "prize" does it belong?)1972 - Order of Kim Il SungOthers might be added, but they're a "reach"? Uncompleted projects like the Order of Stalin or the Order of Muhammad Tarzi don't belong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Friedrich Engels & Teddy Th?lmannGentlemen,I guess, that the DDR (GDR) had awards dealing with Engels and Th?lmann ?Best regards Christianhello, Friedrich Engels has his dedicated Prize, for military works; an award declined in 3 classes. E.Th?lmann didn't have his medal but only badges for FDJ organisation. We see Thalmann face on the "Fighter against fascism" state medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Andropov-MedalGentlemen,as far, as I know, the CCCP or RF issued a Andropov-Medal for meritorious workers in the secret service ?Best regards ChristianI'm not sure it is an offical awward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 We may need to define "leader", otherwise we'll have to contend with the whole stable of Cuban awards named after EVERYONE.If we go with the medals in the Lenin-Sukhbaatar-Dimitrov-Gottwald-Marx-Mart? (not Guevera)-Ho-Kim series (things that actually existed and were awarded), then we have a useful comparative set of things in the same phaleristic ecological niche. Otherwise . . . .The only ones I can offer for the compartative visual gallery: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 We may need to define "leader", otherwise we'll have to contend with the whole stable of Cuban awards named after EVERYONE.If we go with the medals in the Lenin-Sukhbaatar-Dimitrov-Gottwald-Marx-Mart? (not Guevera)-Ho-Kim series (things that actually existed and were awarded), then we have a useful comparative set of things in the same phaleristic ecological niche. Otherwise . . . .The only ones I can offer for the compartative visual gallery:Ed is right, otherwise we'll get lost in the jungle of "prizes" of all kinds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 In that case only Marx and Engels, the rest are really followers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 (edited) In that case only Marx and Engels, the rest are really followers not really, because we're trying to gather state orders dedicated to first leaders. Engels has its prize, which is a specific category in the german award system... And Engels is forever second after Marx, so... Edited August 19, 2007 by seb16trs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 In that case only Marx and Engels, the rest are really followers Dear Belaruski,getting down to world history of the (authentic) socialist movement, there are 4 unique persons (the rest might be "followers"):Marx - Engels - Lenin - StalinOrder (DDR) - Prize (DDR) - Order (CCCP) - Order-Project (CCCP)Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) I think Stalin was the firts person who united the concept of Marxism Leninism as a theoretical and practical concept. Lenin wouldn't have used the term Leninism! (The same is true of Stalin 'Stalinism').People like Enver Hoxha, Kim il Sung and even Mao still talked of Marxism Leninism following the definitions laid out by Stalin in his book 'Problems of Leninism'.So I think that the list ought to be Marx, Engels, and Lenin.With significant contributions from Stalin et al!but I think we digress... Oh and as a thought is there a Chinese Order of Mao? Edited August 20, 2007 by Belaruski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 To try to get us back toward the topic . . . . . . is there a Chinese Order of Mao?No, never. Well, at least not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seb16trs Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I think Stalin was the firts person who united the concept of Marxism Leninism as a theoretical and practical concept. Lenin wouldn't have used the term Leninism! (The same is true of Stalin 'Stalinism').People like Enver Hoxha, Kim il Sung and even Mao still talked of Marxism Leninism following the definitions laid out by Stalin in his book 'Problems of Leninism'.So I think that the list ought to be Marx, Engels, and Lenin.With significant contributions from Stalin et al!but I think we digress... Oh and as a thought is there a Chinese Order of Mao?Stalin proposed a vulgate from the marxist-leninist doctrina... I believe Lenin was the first to engage marxism in a successfull revolutionnary practice, as many researchers outlined his opportunism to create a revolution in the least developped counrtry of europe, Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 We have strayed badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Sorry Ed.However 'leaders of Socialism' is a broad term. (And certainly a contentious one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) Agreed. (Why is there no Order of M. N. Roy??) The original subject line may have had problems, but I thinbk most knew what was intended. "Men that lead"? Fake lead-cast eBay medals? People with heavy feet? Contemporary leaders of the socialist world (a short list, I fear - and none of them have orders in THEIR names, yet)? Etc. . . . ?????But, in terms of phaleristics, I would hope we can agree that the orders of Lenin-Sukhbaatar-Dimitrov-Gottwald-Marx-Mart?-Ho-Kim occupy a simnilar level and serve similar functions across countries. This is no comment on the relative and comparative ideological and philosophical importance of these individuals, ranging as it does from the major to the insignificant (and I'll not name names - it would be irrelevant to this discussion).If we can comparatively study things like the hero stars or the "Red Banner" awards (which we should, and have, and it is great fun), then these orders seem to occupy the same PHALERISTIC ecological niche and layer. This has nothing (well, very very little) to do with their assertable status as great thinkers and great leaders (or not)! Edited August 20, 2007 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Very good post Ed.(I wonder why the Chinese never made a Mao order..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I wonder why the Chinese never made a Mao order..)They believed that orders, and medals, and even ranks were anti-egalitarian and, therefore, anti-socialist. Maybe they had a point?Even the early stuff for the Civil War and the Anti-Japanese War fell out of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now