US Armed Forces

[bigjarofwasps]

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me what the current terms of service are for the US armed forces? Basically I`m interested to know what the minimum period you can sign up for, how do they go about extending and whats the most service you can do.

I`m also interested to finding out how the following happens...

In the book `Purple Hearts` by Nina Berman she makes mention of several soldiers who following being seriously injuried where granted American citizenship, I`m curious to know how they managed to join the American army in the first place, if they weren`t American citizens in the first place?

Can anyone shine any light on this for me?

Gordon.

[JBFloyd]

Enlistments generally run 4 years, although there are lots of exceptions.

The services are free to negotiate enlistment contracts pretty much as they wish, so often the length of enlistment may go up in exchange for other considerations. For example, some technical training schools can be guaranteed if you sign up for 6 years. I don't recall ever running into an enlistment of more than 6 years or less than 3 years.

Generally an enlistment can be extended by up to 2 years by simply filling out some paperwork. This is usually done for the convenience of the government (very rarely for the convenience of the individual).

An example might where an individual is going to an overseas assignment that would normally last 4 years, but only has 2 years left on his enlistment, he would be offered the assignment and a 2-year extension. This pops up when looking at named and dated Navy and Marine Corps Good Conduct Medals, where you'll often see odd terms of service caused by enlistment extensions. There are even bars on Good Conduct Medals that say "Extension of Enlistment".

The total length of time one can serve is a combination of age and rank, but service over 30 years takes special approval and is usually only offered to the highest ranking NCOs, and then usually only if they are in positions of substantial responsibility.

There are hundreds of pages of policies and manuals on this subject and these change constantly as the services try to manage their forces in the long term.

Also, citizenship is not a requirement for enlistment, but may be required to hold certain positions or security clearances, which will limit the jobs available. I once had a situation where one of my NCOs had very high level security clearances, which required citizenship and serious background investigations. When he was selected for an overseas assignment that required an official passport, it was discovered that he was a citizen of Panama, not the US. Much huffing and puffing followed about punitive actions against the NCO, until it was discovered that he had always noted his Panamanian citizenship in his records and the security clearance guys had fouled up in giving him access. Some strings were finally pulled to get his US citizenship processed and approved.

[bigjarofwasps]

Cheers Jeff, thats really interesting.

So just out of interest, could someone say from the UK get a 6 month visa go to the States, volunteer to join the Army for 4 years, maybe do a tour in Iraq, then apply for citizenship, or is it not simple?

[Ulsterman]

Indeed.

Recent Federal legislation now allows non-citizens to obtain US citizenship after only 2 years service-and immediate Green cards (permanent residency) for almost all family members. If one is KIA, then you automatically receive citizenship-and so does everyone in your family.

It is estimated that @ 5-10% of the US army is non US born and @ 3-5% are "foreign" (Green Card residents, not citizens as Dave noted above). These numbers are less in the USAF and navy and MUCH less in the coast guard.

Almost NO officers are foreigners however. There are a few exceptions and where I have encountered them, they are either Canadian, Israeli or (very rarely) British and/or specialists.

I should note that a person with prior British army experience gets some special treatment in the US forces.

In some instances basic enlistments are only for 2 years.

This 2 year enlistment was common and standard in the basic ranks in the late 1970s and early 1980s, when the armed forces were falling apart.

My best friend, an ex-Captain in the WOFRs with about 8 years service in Ulster alone (15 years total service, not including territorial army time) went into a local recruitment depot @ 2003 and asked about enlistment in the US army reserves. Upon learning of his background, the sergeant-a friend of mine turned to me and said, "if he signs up, I made my quota for two months". My friend (the WOFR Captain) was promised an instant Lieutenancy with a fast track to Captain and $50,000 enlistment bonus to go regular army. He was offered the same commission deal but (only) $30,000 to go into the reserves.

If he had done it his medal bar would have been a fascinating bit of history.

https://secure.military.com/Recruiting/page...rec_army_gen.kw

Edited September 27, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Paul R]

I was under the impression that in order to be a non US citizen and join the military, the enlistee had to be from a US territory(Puerto Rico, Wake, Philippeans-until 1991, and persons with a certain type of visa).

[Dave Danner]

Enlisted men must be U.S. citizens or green card holders. Officers must be U.S. citizens.

Here is a summary from the U.S. Embassy in Germany:

http://germany.usembassy.gov/germany/dao/enlistno.html

And from the U.S. Navy:

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/questions/foreign.html

[Dave Danner]

I was under the impression that in order to be a non US citizen and join the military, the enlistee had to be from a US territory(Puerto Rico, Wake, Philippeans-until 1991, and persons with a certain type of visa).

Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. Wake Island doesn't have a native population; you might be thinking of Guam. Guamanians are also U.S. citizens.

[Ulsterman]

see here:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles...ing_foreigners/

Enlistment is a fuzzy area. Despite claims otherwise the US army does help foreign national get green cards-fast! When I went through basic enlistment in 1984 two things happened immediately that struck me-officer candidates were pulled from the room immediately and ushered into the process first, with far less yelling and foreign nationals were taken over to the INS officer and had paperwork checked and filled out-whence it was rushed away to the INS office in Boston that afternoon. There was a skinny German exchange student and a Canadian dual national from the County-a girl-and pretty too) and the Sergeants kept making jokes about how the German kid would obviously be going into tanks -"We have great panzers, you'll be right at home"...etc.

I should add that they are very firm on the language issue-you can be illiterate (almost) if you are a citizen, but if you get here from Guatamala to enlist you HAVE to speak english fluently.

In the First gulf War US embassies around the world were besieged by applicants wanting to join up and obtain citizenship.

Now however, a fast track is to have a useful language. If they can use you on the ground somewhere, they are going to try and snap you up.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Ulsterman

[JBFloyd]

Everything can be waived! And the regs/policies will change as needs change.

[bigjarofwasps]

What about age restrictions?

[Ulsterman]

They have just gone up. It used to be 34. Now it's 42-and maybe even more if you have prior service and a needed MOs. There are some helicopter pilots in Iraq today who flew in Vietnam! If you have any Arabic language skills-they'll waive you right in up to age 50 (and fast too), so long as they can make certain you are not AQ (another reason they like Brits, they are easy to vet)!

If you are serious, I can hook you up with a local recruiting sergeant. he'd love to talk to you-or you can log into the army website and sign up. They'll send you a free US Army tee shirt just for filling out their questionnaire and doing basic trivia. See the link above which I just added.

Of course for the BIG MONEY there is always the Blackwater Corporation.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Paul R]

Of course for the BIG MONEY there is always the Blackwater Corporation.

:speechless1:

[bigjarofwasps]

They have just gone up. It used to be 34. Now it's 42-and maybe even more if you have prior service and a needed MOs. There are some helicopter pilots in Iraq today who flew in Vietnam! If you have any Arabic language skills-they'll waive you right in up to age 50 (and fast too), so long as they can make certain you are not AQ (another reason they like Brits, they are easy to vet)!

If you are serious, I can hook you up with a local recruiting sergeant. he'd love to talk to you-or you can log into the army website and sign up. They'll send you a free US Army tee shirt just for filling out their questionnaire and doing basic trivia. See the link above which I just added.

Of course for the BIG MONEY there is always the Blackwater Corporation.

42, that gives me a few years anyway!!!!!!!

[Ulsterman]

Sorry, I lost the thread...

Anyway, i went over and spoke with the sergeant and he suggested the National guard (well, they gave me a teeshirt as they were ease dropping) so here:

SSGT Rick Campbell

207.430.5505

richard.campbell8@us.army.mil

or 1-800-GO-GUARD.com

They said "no problem with the green card, provided you're a "good catch".

[Mike Dwyer]

I know that when I enlisted in the army in 1977 I was told I had to enlist for a 3 year term. Perhaps that's just what the recruiting sergeant told me, but that's what I was told. When I went through basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina we had a guy in my company who was from the Soviet Union, but had been living in the states for a few years. His brother was serving in the Soviet army at that time, which we all though was kind of interesting.

After basic training when I went to the Military Police School for advanced training we had a guy in our company from Northern Ireland. His father had come to the US, served in the US Army, Sean was born in the US while his father was serving, and then the family moved back to Northern Ireland when his father was discharged. He has US citizenship though because he was born here, but he was raised most of his life in Northern Ireland and graduated from university there. He told me he had two dreams; either to serve in the Royal Ulster Constabulary (his grandfather had been in the old Royal Irish Constabulary) or the US Army. His mother refused to let him serve in the RUC because of the troubles at that time.

[bigjarofwasps]

Sorry, I lost the thread...

Anyway, i went over and spoke with the sergeant and he suggested the National guard (well, they gave me a teeshirt as they were ease dropping) so here:

SSGT Rick Campbell

207.430.5505

richard.campbell8@us.army.mil

or 1-800-GO-GUARD.com

They said "no problem with the green card, provided you're a "good catch".

Cheers Ulster, I`ll give it a bash, got nothing to lose!!!

[bigjarofwasps]

Just out of idol curiousity. How does the US military view the wearing of foreign medals. I`ve read all the trends abouts serving years in the British Army, then joining the US Army, were they allowed to wear for example there GSM for Northern Ireland, etc?

[Mike Dwyer]

Just out of idol curiousity. How does the US military view the wearing of foreign medals. I`ve read all the trends abouts serving years in the British Army, then joining the US Army, were they allowed to wear for example there GSM for Northern Ireland, etc?

I'm sure there are those here who can answer this much better than I, but I seem to recall that wearing foreign medals is authorized so long as you apply for permission and it is granted. I do know that when I served on a major infantry base years ago I used to see soldiers all the time wearing foreign parachutist's badges and lots of German Bundeswehr marksmanship lanyards.

[Paul R]

I'm sure there are those here who can answer this much better than I, but I seem to recall that wearing foreign medals is authorized so long as you apply for permission and it is granted.

Exactly. They are always worn at the lowest position on the medal bar as well.

[Ed_Haynes]

To what degree is there a different policy toward foreign awards earned while in US uniform and foreign awards earned from prior service, before joining the US military? I know that such issues were especially sensitive in the years after WWII, when many of the defeated Germans came to the US, gained citizenship, and entered the US military. Could they wear their old awards? Ouch.

[Ulsterman]

no-although there are stories.

The NCOs handbook has a chart of what is allowed, what may be allowed with permission and what has blanket permission (e.g. bundeswher parachute badge). This is different by service. I don't think the Marines allow anything that isn't a US award.

[JBFloyd]

The latest Army regulations contain a long list of medals and decorations that may be accepted and worn. An interesting point is that the regs specify that some may be accepted by NCOs and some by officers.

What I have not been able to determine is exactly when/how the US services got around the "foreign emoluments and office" problem (Article I, Section 9, US Constitution). I assume that Congress had to take some action to make this happen, but I've never seen the details. Usually, blanket authority was given to accept awards from allies in wartime, so maybe we've redefined wartime. These days, almost every general seems to sport a Brazilian Order of Military Merit, for example. Or, a Republic of Korea gong.

I've never seen the regs address the situation Ed alludes to (wear of "non-Allied" awards). The early days of the Special Forces had numerous instances of former Wehrmacht or Warsaw Pact soldiers serving, so such requests must be handled (and generally denied) individually.

[Paul R]

no-although there are stories.

The NCOs handbook has a chart of what is allowed, what may be allowed with permission and what has blanket permission (e.g. bundeswher parachute badge). This is different by service. I don't think the Marines allow anything that isn't a US award.

The Marines do allow for the Viet' Nam Service medal, awarded by the ARVN as well as the host of foreign awards from Desert Storm.

The 5th Marine Regiment and the 6th Marine Regiment of the United States Marine Corps were awarded the Fourrag?re for having earned the Croix de Guerre with palm leaf twice during World War I.

[Ulsterman]

oops-I forgot about the Vietnam awards-they are few on the chest these days.

And of course the Saudi and Kuwaiti campaign awards and UN awards (do they count?).....however, i can say with definite certainty that the Maine National Guard turned a blind eye (didn't care) to foreign awards being worn in the early 1980s. I was once at a parade at the Auburn armory where a WW2 Canadian vet showed up in full gear-complete with stars and Volunteer medal AND a Croix De Guerre! He wore them as a lower layer to his US medals and the Maine ribbons (Maine only has(had) ribbons).

Edited October 3, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Andwwils]

You can serve more than 30 years active duty if you switch into the warrant officer or commissioned officer hierarchy. Prior-enlisted service can be used to waive the age requirements for active-duty OCS and direct commission officer indoctrination school in all of the branches I believe.

So, you could theoretically spend 30 or more years as enlisted, apply to OCS and become a 50 year old 0-1 and serve until you reach 62 and then get mandatorily retired (unless you're stop-lossed ) or you can separate after your enlisted service, acquire a professional degree and then go back in as a direct-commission officer and serve until 62 and then ...

Bottom line: If you're aware of the loopholes, time it right, don't get disabled out and are willing to meet the educational requirements you can put in well-over 30 years of combined and maybe even continuous military service in the US Armed forces - especially the Army, Navy and AF...the Coast Guard and Marine Corps might be harder as the Marines don't have direct commissions and have very, very few 30 year NCO slots and the Coast Guard is extremely small and only direct commissions JAG types (which are never hard to recruit).

Sorry to dig this thread up!