Going for the Gold-- Saint Henry Medal Ribbon Bar

[Guest Rick Research]

NCOs are a problem. A big, giant problem. They are invisible--not being shown in Rank Lists. In very rare cases do rolls even exist that show their awards.

This one from the David S Mystery Recipients Collection looks very promising indeed

since there were only 150 Gold Saint Henry Order Medals awarded for the World War. Nice round LOW number to start at-- and not only all on existing rolls, but I have their holders' association 1936 membership directory, neatly annotated.

150

- 22 dead by 1936

-- 1 gone to Argentina

- 17 in Wehrmacht, police, and civil service or Party organizations like R.A.D. that already had long service awards by 1938

-- 7 who quite oddly never got a SILVER Saint Henry Medal

-- 9 who had other KNOWN (and there, my friends, is El Problemo) awards

-----

= 94 remaining suspects

And here they are:

Albrecht, Paul Uffz (IR 106)

Beck, Fritz Unteroffiz.d.R. (IR 182)

Bieder, Erich Sergeant (J?gB 13)

Brauer, Friedrich Waffenmeist.-Stellv.(FAR 246)

Br?ckner, Otto Vizefeldweb.d.R. (EIR 32)

Clemenz, Emil (verg. Medaille) Oberj?ger (J?gB 12)

Daumann, Otto VFw (IR 133)

Denner, Eugen (verg. Medaille) Gefr d.ErsRes (IR 179)

Dietsche, Heinrich Vizefeldweb.d.L.(RJ?gB 12)

Dietze, Albert Uffz (IR 183)

Dittrich, Albin Vizefeldw.(Off-St)(IR 134)

Dittrich, Walter VFw (JagdStaf 1)

Fritzsche, Oskar VFw (IR 134)

Graichen, Arno Vizefeldweb.d.L. (RIR 133)

Gros, Hermann VFw (GrR 101)

Gr?schel, Alwin Vizefeldweb.d.R. (RIR 103)

Gro?e, Erhard Vizewachtmeister (FAR 12)

Guhr, Paul Uffz d.L.(RIR 106)

Hanft, Hans VFw (IR 104)

H?ntsch, Paul Vizefeldweb.d.R.(SchR 108)

Hauenstein, Max VFw d.R.(IR 181)

Haupt, Otto Uffz (IR 107)

Haussner, Erwin Uffz (PB 22)

Heinert, Walter Gefr (IR 134)

Hildesheim, Paul (verg. Medaille) Uffz (IR 105)

J?ckel, Kurt Unteroffiz.d.Lst. (IR 181)

K?stner, Karl VFw (IR 183)

Kemlein, Walter Feldunterarzt (RIR 102)

Kern, Johannes Uffz (IR 179)

Kl?den, Georg Uffz (IR 107)

Klose, Karl VFw (IR 182)

Knopp, Paul Uffz (IR 392)

Koehn, Otto VFw (J?gB 12)

K?hler, Otto VFw (IR 192)

Kramer, Max Uffz d.R.(IR 133)

Krems, Jakob (verg. Medaille) VFw (IR 106)

Kressner, Kurt VFw (RJ?gB 12)

Kr?ger, Otto VFw (SturmB 11)

Kuban, Richard Uffz (RFAR)

K?hn, Friedrich Vizef.d.L.(Off-St)(RIR 106)

K?hn, Johannes Feldhilfsarzt (SanKomp 270)

K?hne, Kurt SanVizefeldw.d.L.(RJ?gB 13)

Kunze, Richard VFw (RJ?gB 25)

Liebig, Artur SanUnteroff.d.R. (IR 183)

Liepke, Oswald Uffz (SchR 108)

Lippmann, Oskar VFw (IR 103)

L?dke, Willy VFw (IR 105)

Maixner, Alexander Gefr (IR 179)

Mehlhorn, Richard VFw d.R.(IR 181)

Mittmann, Alfred Uffz d.R.(IR 179)

M?ckel, Paul Gefr (IR 106)

M?ller, Kurt Adolf VFw (J?gB 13)

Nebel, Ernst VFw d.L.(RIR 242)

Niemz, Konrad Sergeant (Fu?AR 19)

Pampel, Paul (verg. Medaille) Vizefeldw.d.ErsRes (IR 133)

Petersohn, Fritz Unterarzt (RIR 241)

Petzold, Hermann Vizef.d.L.(Off-St)(IR 107)

Pohl, Ernst VFw (IR 102)

Poller, Max (verg. Medaille) Vizef.d.L.(Off-St)(MinB 8)

P?tzsch, Karl Vizefeldw.(Off-St)(IR 134)

Pucklitzsch, Max Unteroff.d.L.(P(Min)K 324)

Raue, Wilhelm Vizewachtmeister (FAR 77)

Richter, Karl Offizierstellvert.(LIR 101)

Ridder, Friedrich Uffz (IR 183)

R?nsch, Paul Unteroffiz.d.R. (GrRR 100)

Ro?berger, Otto Uffz (IR 106)

Rudolph, Paul VFw (SchR 108)

Ruhmer, Paul Uffz (FAR 32)

Sachansky, Max Sergeant d.L. (EIR 24)

Sander, Erich Uffz (PKomp 115)

Sarfert, Kurt Vizef.d.R.(Off-St)(IR 183)

Schaff, Kurt Vizefeldw.(Off-St)(IR 178)

Schmiedchen, Alfred VFw (IR 103)

Scholze, Wilhelm Uffz d.L.(GrR 101)

Sch?nberner, Heinrich Uffz (UR 17)

Schrapel, Martin (verg. Medaille) VFw(Off-St) (IR 179

Schreier, Bruno VFw (RIR 103)

Schubert, Paul Uffz d.R.(RIR 104)

Schumacher, Karl Sergeant d.R. (EIR 23)

Sch??ler, Bruno Uffz d.R.(IR 181)

Singwitz, Richard Uffz (RIR 103)

Uderstadt, Theodor Gefr (RJ?gB 12)

Urban, Kurt Uffz (EIR 32)

Vinz, Max VFw (IR 107)

Vogel, Friedrich VFw d.R.(GrR 100)

Vogel, Paul Vizef.d.R.(Off-St)(RIR 104)

Voigtland, Leopold Uffz (GrRR 100)

Weihmann, Richard Vizef.d.L.(Off-St)(RIR 102)

Willner, Alfred VFw d.R.(RJ?gB 26)

Winkler, Kurt Uffz d.R.(IR 107)

Winzer, Arthur Offizierstellvert.(Fu?AB 58)

Wolf, Albert Vizef.d.R.(Off-St)(GrRR 100)

Zeh, Paul VFw (IR 106)

Zielka, Julius Sergeant (RFAR 40)

Winzer was an SA Standartenf?hrer by 1936 which may or may not mean he had an NSDAP Long Service Cross--in 1940.

Most of the senior NCOs doubtless had Saxon long service awards-- but cannot obtain that data to exclude any of the above.

Members of IR 133 doubtless got the Saxe-Meiningen War Merit Medal (yeah-- only 23,000 to search through for their names ) and the J?ger unit members likely had awards from Altenburg or Reuss.

But this is about as far as this search can go.

[WNickel]

Hi Rick,

the forst candidate is Oswald Liepke - gettinh the ?sterreich silbernes Verdienstkreuz

[WNickel]

..sorry it's too big.

Next candidate is Fridolin Fladel

[WNickel]

or Emil Clemenz..

[WNickel]

or Richard Kunze..

[WNickel]

or a last Ernst Pohl

[Guest Rick Research]

Werner!!!! Where did you get THOSE from???????? When was that published?

WOW

So you've gone through all 150 of them and everybody else has been excluded?

hail Werner!!!!!

OK, this is my reading:

from Werner's Incredibly Short List

it CANNOT be:

Clemenz-- he had the Altenburg Bravery Medal, or

Kunze-- he had a Saxon XII years Long Service Medal.

questionable:

Liepke-- his entry does not say so, but from his service, and from the portrait, does he have a Saxon XII?

Pohl-- border in Lithuania... = Baltic Cross? OK, maybe not on a ribbon bar. But if he was discharged from the Reichsheer in 1920 I would BET you that he got an XII for his service 1914-20. I have a Bremen beer truck driver's group who did, war volunteer 1914 and out as Vizefeldwebel in 1920.

so of the FIVE

the one who seems MOST likely to me, with two DEFINITE exclusions and 2 likely exclusions is

THE GUY WHO WENT TO ARGENTINA!!!!!!

Yes, in the 1936 Gold Medal Recipients' Directory, Fridolin Flade "I" is shown as "emigrated to Argentina."

Did he come BACK in time to stroll into the Sudetenland or Prague?

I had written him off my Suspects List, but now he looks like the Prime Suspect indeed!

Werner! Werner! Werner!

[Guest Rick Research]

Portrait/biography from Werner, ribbon bar from David, and the typewritten 1936 membership directory that belonged to Karl Rau which George Seymour xeroxed for me 30 years ago:

As of the 1936 directory, they had no known address for him, only--as Rau noted along with "+" against dead members-- "emigrated to Argentina."

Since Werner has gone through all of them, Flade seems the ONLY likely prospect to me. He must have returned to Germany (a lot of emigr?s returned to their home countries in the Great Depression) and...

one wonders about the REST of the story.

BTW, Flade received his Gold medal on 6 September 1917 and his Silver only 4 months earlier, on 26 April 1917!

The Austrian Bravery Medal ribbon is still mounted in pre-Anschluss precedence-- a fairly common period error--but most of the Sudeten Medals were being handed out as the war started. I'd take this to be an early wartime bar, so he must have been back in some sort of NCO uniform.

The Hindenburg swords are quite interesting. Although the angles are solid like the later war hollow stamped bend-tab type, the swords here are still solid and held on by the normal split pins, which I can feel under the backing.

So circa 1940/41?

1 of 150.

[WNickel]

Hi Rick,

I think you are correct in all....

[David S]

Rick

You are THE one true Master of the unknown ribbon bars

[Ed_Haynes]

It is -- no matter how far outside "my field" (whatever that is) -- always good to see The Research restoring The History!

[Guest Rick Research]

This would have been IMPOSSIBLE without Werner's Weird & Obscure Picture Book.

It certainly helps to have friends with strange personal libraries.

[Ed Maroli]

I have a question on the St. Henry Medals and Orders.

1. Was the gold medal a second award of the silver ( 2 acts of bravery)?

2. Was it nessecary to with the Knights Cross before the Commander 2nd?

~Ed Maroli

[Stogieman]

No, Gold could be awarded with no silver. The specific act was the defining characteristic.

Yes, must have RK to receive higher grades.

RK & up, officers only

[Guest Rick Research]

Though in actual practice, it seems that the Gold Saint Henry Medal was used as a second award, following after a Silver in virtually all cases. I was surprised to find 7 Gold winners who had no Silver, but of the other 143 recipients, a casual reading on their award dates shows that virtually all, if not literally all, of them had a Silver and subsequently were awarded Golds. I had never looked into this closely before because

how often do Gold Saint henry Medal groups come up?

[María Flade]

Hello I'm fridolin's great grandchildren. I am from Argentina so I don't speak English very well, but I'll do my best  I was searching information about him on the internet and I ended in this site. I was curious because his name appeared here. My dad told me something but he doesn't know much because his dad wasn't the kind of person who talk about that freely. My dad has that book where fridolin appears and a few medals... I hope you read this. Greetings

[Paul C]

Marie, Your English is fine and thanks for posting here. Do you have any photos of you grandfather? Sadly Rick Research passed away several years ago. Rick's ribbon bar collection will be coming to auction in German in June. I can get you information about the auction if you wish. Do you have the book?

[Stogieman]

Welcome Maria, reach out to Paul via private message

[Nicolas7507]

Does anyone know what book this is? 

[dedehansen]

2 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

Does anyone know what book this is? 

Hi, I think it could be this one:

https://www.amazon.de/Ehrenbuch-Inhaber-Sächsischen-Goldenen-Militär-St-Heinrichs-Medaille/dp/B002JOV810

Kind regards
Andreas

[Nicolas7507]

Thank you Andreas!

[Deruelle]

Hi

Here is the miniature chain from Leutnant Walther Dittrich. He received both Silver and Gold St Henry medals

Christophe

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Interesting to see two different models of the St. H. medals one late type the golden one and one middle type the silver one. Lt was probably a battlefield commission as he must have received the golden and silver medals as an NCO. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by kaiserwilhelm2

[Deruelle]

He received the SHg as Vizefeldwebel and was commisionned in 1918. He received the SA3bX in the end of the war.