Kriegsmarine KM Flare Gun

[John Burchell]

Here is a beauty which I would like to share with Forum members. This is a Walther Model SLD (Signal und Leucht Doppel) double-barrel flare gun, in this case the anodized aluminum version (versus the earlier stainless steel one). Note the maker code "eeu" in a rectangle and the eagle/swastika MIII/3 proofmark on the receiver, as well as the eagle and "4" within a circle on the top of each barrel (indicating the type/gauge of flare to be used). I understand that some 6000 of these were produced in 1943 and 44, this one being #5021 from 1944. Although they were produced for the U-Boats, they were also used aboard other ships.

Comments are most welcome. Thanks,

John

Edited March 26, 2008 by John Burchell

[John Burchell]

Markings:

[John Burchell]

Markings on the barrels:

[nesredep]

Hello!

This is an exelent Flare Gun.I Norway we hawe lot of them,thanks for sharing.

Best regards

Nesredep

[Max]

Hi John

Fantastic! I would love to find one of these....

Cheers

Max

www.atlantik-pirat.com

[Paul R]

I have never seen a double barrel version before!!! Very nice piece. I love the wood work!

[Wolfi]

Here is a beauty which I would like to share with Forum members. This is a Walther Model SLD (Signal und Leucht Doppel) double-barrel flare gun, in this case the anodized aluminum version (versus the earlier stainless steel one). Note the maker code "eeu" in a rectangle and the eagle/swastika MIII/3 proofmark on the receiver, as well as the eagle and "4" within a circle on the top of each barrel (not entirely sure what these mean). I understand that some 6000 of these were produced in 1943 and 44, this one being #5021 from 1944. Although they were produced for the U-Boats, they were also used aboard other ships.

Comments are most welcome. Thanks,

John

dear john,

I suppose that the "4" markings on the barrels stand for the caliber. I am looking for one of these leuchtpistols. do you have an idea of the value.

Thanks

Wolf

[John Burchell]

Hello Wolf:

Based upon enquiries that I have made, I am told that this model is a hard version to find and that examples of the stainless steel model have sold for US$2000. I therefore assume that the aluminum version would sell for about the same amount.

Regards,

John

[Wolfi]

thanks a lot,

it is a stainless steel walther/th?r. 1940 15xx N745

[John Burchell]

Well, one lives and learns...and that is a good thing. However, sometimes the truth hurts. Read on....

A fellow collector has pointed-out that there appears to have been a modification made to my gun pictured here, specifically, the breech end of the barrels having been re-chambered. Note the "shiny" area visible in the picture. This extends into each of the barrels for about 1 cm., which I am told should not be the case.

I certainly believe this one to be a factory original, and when this was pointed-out to me, wondered if it might be a period or post-war modification, and for what reason - the only one I could imagine possibly being to accommodate a different type of flare cartridge.

What I am told is that if the 1 cm. "shiny" area is of a slightly larger diameter than the bore (which it is), it has

definitely been altered and that this would not have been done wartime by the Germans, and that most probably it was done by someone post-war to accomodate a 4-gauge tear gas or shotgun shell with a thickened area around the base of the shell....or...someone also might have made an insert, and then had to relieve the chamber to get it to fit.

All of which probably renders it unsafe to fire, the flaregun walls having been thinned, making it dangerous for a shotshell, and even with 4-gauge flares, which would no longer fit snugly into the chamber and the gap could cause a shell rupture.

Sadly, this decreases the value of this flaregun, although it does remain a lovely, period piece of KM history. As I do not wish to be seen as presenting an item that is inaccurately described, or deceptively described by omission, I have added this new information so that all can learn from it.

Regards,

John

Edited March 22, 2008 by John Burchell

[joetauchretter]

Hello John,

Thank you for your update on this flair gun . I saw those shiney bores and had my doubts , but as I was not 100% certain I did not point that at to you . What really strikes me as very odd is the eagle with the M stamped next to the 44 . Look at the stamped 44 , see how dark and aged toned it is and looks original to this gun . That stamp looks like it should be 65 years old , it is age correct ! The stamp next to it , the eagle with the M looks like it was stamped just last week ! it looks too new and bright and it is not aged toned as stamped wood should show after all these years . Look at the two side by side , the two look like night and day , IMHO they were not stamped at the same time or even in the same decade ! That Eagle with the M should be as dark as the 44 stamping . Another reason why I am suspicious of this stamp is that I saw the SAME , EXACT stamp sell on Ebay several years ago and it sold for approx. $585.00 ! No one buys a metal stamp for that kind of money and just puts it on a shelf ! I have seen many other " original " metal proof stamps sold on Ebay over the years , so one must be on the look out for stamps that look too new and out of place on the item they wish to buy .

Best Regards,

Joe

Edited March 25, 2008 by joetauchretter

[John Burchell]

Hello Joe:

Thanks for your posting regarding the KM acceptance mark (the eagle/swastika MIII/3 proofmark on the receiver = Abnahmestempel der Abteilung lll des Marinezeugamtes 3). I have examined this again carefully in light of your comments.

The picture does indeed make the stamp look like it was done more recently, but in-hand, this does not appear to be the case. I stand to be corrected but will explain why, based upon my own research into the matter. This later model Walther flare gun is the anodized aluminum version. The anodized finish was applied after the serial number and other maker marks were placed on the gun by the manufacturer, which is why they appear to be age toned.

Important to note is that the KM acceptance mark is not stamped on the wood, as you indicated.

The navy acceptance mark was die-stamped onto the metal portion of the receiver after the anodizing process was completed, so does not have the anodized patina or finish like the rest of the metal parts of the reciever. This process of inspection and proof-stamping of equipment was done by the appropriate navy officials/inspectors - either at the Mauser factory before being shipped to the KM arsenals; or at large naval installations, such as Kiel, before being distributed throughout the Kriegsmarine.

Thanks again for pointing-out this feature, which has added value to the thread.

Best regards,

John

[Enigma]

Hello

Modified German WW2 flare guns do exist. I have seen one that had been modified this way with a British broad arrow as well. This modification was performed to make them accept allied cartridges.

Kind regards

Enigma

[joetauchretter]

Hello ,

I found this picture of u-boat crewmen wearing Dr?ger tauchretters floating on a Marks life raft using a Flare gun that looks very similar to the one in this thread . If not the exact type I thought the picture looked interesting as you do not see many pictures of u-boat men using this flare gun !

Best Regards,

Joe

[nesredep]

Hello ,

I found this picture of u-boat crewmen wearing Dr?ger tauchretters floating on a Marks life raft using a Flare gun that looks very similar to the one in this thread . If not the exact type I thought the picture looked interesting as you do not see many pictures of u-boat men using this flare gun !

Best Regards,

Joe

Hello!

Very rare photo find,never seen Km flare gun in used. :jumping:

All the best

Nesredep

[guntherprien]

hello

this i receive yesterday

regards

g

[John Burchell]

Nice catch "g"...and with a lower serial number than mine pictured above (now no longer in my possession). Congratulations.

John

[Simon Orchard]

A beautiful stainless steel 1940 KM stamped one recently got donated to the local museum here, damn they're heavy! Just out of interest how much do these go for roughly.

[nesredep]

A beautiful stainless steel 1940 KM stamped one recently got donated to the local museum here, damn they're heavy! Just out of interest how much do these go for roughly.

Hello!

Simon

Here in Norway 1500-2000?.

All the best

Nesredep

[skyliner44]

I was recently researching some items from my Dad's WWII memorabilia; in particular a Walther double barrel flare pistol, and found this site and thread. I remember him showing it to me about 40 years ago and I thought it was the coolest gun. I thought I'd share some photos of it. Great site, very informative.

[frwi]

Congratulations, a very nice one , cheers Frode

[Tojoke]

Here is a beauty which I would like to share with Forum members. This is a Walther Model SLD (Signal und Leucht Doppel) double-barrel flare gun, in this case the anodized aluminum version (versus the earlier stainless steel one). Note the maker code "eeu" in a rectangle and the eagle/swastika MIII/3 proofmark on the receiver, as well as the eagle and "4" within a circle on the top of each barrel (indicating the type/gauge of flare to be used). I understand that some 6000 of these were produced in 1943 and 44, this one being #5021 from 1944. Although they were produced for the U-Boats, they were also used aboard other ships.

Comments are most welcome. Thanks,

John

Hi John,

I have only recently joined this club and have come across your posting regarding the Walther SLD Doppelschuss flare pistol. I have some extremely interesting information regarding this piece of Kriegsmarine memorabilia and would like to exchange views about it. I can assure you that this is a totally genuine request which will you greatly so I look forward to hearing from you. Regards Tojoke