SAxe Coburg Gotha new ribbon bar

[Deruelle]

Hi everybody,

Today I've received this wonderful ribbon bar. You can see something very special. A Bavarian officer with Saxe Ernestine knight cross 1st class with X and the most important the Carl Eduard medal 2nd class with X .

Of course identify him.

The name Hermann Florsch?tz

But wait for the second ribbon bar

Regards

Christophe

[Deruelle]

The second ribbon bar. The first part is missing (for now but who knows)

[Deruelle]

And a close up for Rick

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

As right as rain-- a "General" level Red Cross M1937 or Volkspflege award. Unfortunately I have ZERO information on him from the Third Reich.

He was a VERY naughty man-- wearing TWO Bavarian Military Merit Orders when the Crown to BMV4X awarded to him on 31 October 1918 REPLACED the BMV4X. Note also that he has placed his Saxe-Coburg Carl Eduard Medal X waaaaay out of proper position.

Yet the key to his identity is the lowly (1911) Luitpold Jubilee Medal. I'm assuming the SECOND same ribbon as that is the "Christmas 1918" Medal handed out to Royalists in the 1920s. ANOTHER Bavarian officer had the same two Thuringian awards but... no pre-war Luitpold Jubilee medal. And we know he was a BAVARIAN officer from that.

Here he was in 1914 as a Leutnant der Reserve with only the 1911 Jubilee Medal:

Having transcribed all the Saxe-Coburg WW1 rolls (yes, no word whatsoever on their delayed publication ) here is ONE of his THREE entries for the EH3X:

THREE entries for the SAME award? Yup.

That is the FIRST entry from Roll "A." Line 280. Note the date.

[Guest Rick Research]

They screwed up. They awarded him the same thing in 1917! Here is his SECOND entry, line 719, from Roll "A", with annotation that it was cancelled out since he had already gotten it-- "see entry 280"

It is PRECISELY this sort of marginal note that I have added to "simple" Roll transcriptions-- which would have made TWO awards out, without notice.

[Guest Rick Research]

THIRD entry? Yes, the three Ernestine Duchies kept overlapping, sometimes NON-duplicating Rolls. Here is his entry from the "B" Roll, showing him as a native Coburger getting the EH3X

A bit easier to read, eh? This Roll is monstrously huge and had to be pieced together from two scans reduced in size.

Note the date. There are often such discrepancies, which only having the actual award Urkunde can resolve.

[Guest Rick Research]

Finally, his Carl Eduard Medal X entry from its roll, line # 219

I think you will find the entrry for Schunke of interest also, Christophe!

Now if only we knew what he was doing under the Third Reich! He was not a medical doctor, but maybe--somehow-- a senior official of the German Red Cross? Or some sort of elderly SA-Oberf?hrer who was a B?rgermeister type? Or ???

One thing we know-- he padded out his ribbon bar and had a very bad grasp of precedence regulations!!!! (He also cheated and-- just to REALLY drive us mad-- put GOLD swords for an EH3aX on his EH3bX. There WAS one Bavarian recipient of the EH3aX and CM2X BUT-- he also got an OK2 and a Bavarian LD2, but no Crown to his BMV4X!

Tricksy, bad naughty wearer!

[Deruelle]

Here is the back of the ribbon bar.

Like always, Rick has done an incredible work. Very impressive. Everybody learn a lot from him.

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

Aw, RATS! No backing cloth "clue" as to what color uniform he was wearing that on!

[webr55]

Spectacular bar!

I have a Hermann Florsch?tz who got a Dr. med. from the University of Gie?en in 1895. Not him, obviously, but there is a medical connection.

Also, there are three more Dr. Florsch?tz listed in the DOA 1908, all from Coburg or Gotha. One of them, Carl, was even Herzoglicher Leibarzt - so I guess there is a connection between Hermann and our old friend SA-Ogruf (and HRH) Carl Eduard.

Edited November 30, 2007 by webr55

[Deruelle]

Many thanks for the information. Where do you find them ?

Regards

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

There were a number of Florsch?tzs (below with Thuringian awards) in the Bavarian army, so they must have been from a family right at this one lucky point of Th?ringia placed in the American Zone in 1945 as a Soviet favor to the British royal family.

Stabsarzt dR Dr. Albert Florsch?tz (1869-) received the Bavarian Military Medical Order 2nd Class and BMV4X as well as an EH3aX.

Stabsarzt dL Hermann Florsch?tz, "practicing physician in Coburg" got an SMK

Stabsarzt Dr. Eduard Florsch?tz received a Coburg Carl Eduard Medal 2nd (no Xs) 2 months into the war.

But artillery reserve officer Hermann was the only Florsch?tz with the combination of WW1 awards on Christophe's ribbon bar.

[ccj]

Why is the Austrian ribbon in 3rd place?

[Guest Rick Research]

Post Anschluss 1938, so Austria was then the "German" Province of "Ostmark" and not a foreign country any more.

It is still weird that he put it there ahead of his two from his native Saxe-Coburg. If a photo can be found of him in uniform, all these errors will make it "spot THIS ribbon bar!"

[922F]

Post Anschluss 1938, so Austria was then the "German" Province of "Ostmark" and not a foreign country any more.

It is still weird that he put it there ahead of his two from his native Saxe-Coburg. If a photo can be found of him in uniform, all these errors will make it "spot THIS ribbon bar!"

The last Thies auction offered a St. Stanislaus commander document to a Dr. Florsch?tz identified as physician to the SCG court. Don't remember the first name, likely Carl.

Edited December 1, 2007 by 922F