Marine-Oberstabsarzt Dr. Conrad Bobrik...

[Komtur]

The bar:

[Komtur]

Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierskorps 1906:

[Komtur]

Stammliste der Kaiser Wilhelms-Akademie f?r das milit?r?rztliche Bildungswesen 1910:

[Komtur]

Rangliste (Dienstaltersliste) der Kaiserlichen Deutschen Marine 1918:

[Komtur]

I got this nice bar with the name of Dr. Conrad Bobrik.

My questions are:

When he was in 1905/06 on S.M.S. "Thetis" and in Tanga, so he was fighting in Deutsch-Ostafrika (see post 2/3). Shouldn?t be on his bar the Kolonial-Denkm?nze 1912?

In the Marine-Rangliste 1918 (post 4) there is missing a red cross medal and on the bar is a 2nd class red cross medal. How can this be?

With regards, Komtur.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Komtur

[Glenn J]

Hi Komtur,

this from the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierskorps 1919:

Regards

Glenn

[Komtur]

Hi Komtur,

this from the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierskorps 1919:

Regards

Glenn

Thanks Glenn! But what does "PK (br)" in that veeeeery interesting list of 1919 mean?

Greetings. Komtur.

[Glenn J]

Hi Komtur,

Kolonialdenkm?nze in Bronze

Regards

Glenn

[webr55]

It is very well possible that his PrRKM2 was a post-1919 award. These were handed out at least until the early 1920s.

The clasps for the Colonial medal, as I understand, were private purchases, so not everyone bought them.

[Komtur]

Hi Komtur,

Kolonialdenkm?nze in Bronze

Regards

Glenn

That is the answer of my first question in post 5. But unfortunately this medal is missing on the bar . Then it is not Bobriks bar???

Edited December 8, 2007 by Komtur

[Komtur]

It is very well possible that his PrRKM2 was a post-1919 award. These were handed out at least until the early 1920s.

The clasps for the Colonial medal, as I understand, were private purchases, so not everyone bought them.

But shouldn?t someone got the 3rd class of the red cross medal before the 2nd, as it is written in the statutes? And shouldn?t at least that 3rd class be mentioned in the Marinerangliste 1918 or in the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierskorps 1919 posted by Glenn?

I?m afraid the bar is not of Bobrik...

Edited December 8, 2007 by Komtur

[Paul C]

Another possible candidate is Dr. Franz Fontane - Marine Doctor. His DOA 1908/08 entry is China Medal, Red Cross Medal 3 and Centennial Medal. His 1918 Marine Ranklist entry shows a Red Eagle Order 4, EK2 and Red Cross Medal 3. His Red Cross 3 Medal is prewar so maybe he received the Red Cross Medal 2 during the war. Fontane entered service in 1891 so he would have had enough time for the 25 year long service cross. The 1918 RL does not show the Bremen Cross. Fontane survived the war and was alive and a member of the Marine Officer's Association in 1931 as listed in the 1931 MOV book. He is not listed in the 1937 MOV book. He is a closer match.

Glenn, can up post his entry from your Doctors list? Maybe it is Fontane.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Paul C

[Glenn J]

Paul,

from 1919

Regards

Glenn

[Komtur]

Thanks Paul and Glenn, it was worth trying with Fontane...

[Guest Rick Research]

Other "China Doctors" from the incompletely listed awards in the February 1918 Navy Rank List are

MGOA Dr Ottow

MGOA Dr. Tacke

MOSA Dr. G?nther

They were in China and had RAO4s and the 1897 Medal.

Red Cross Medals as lone 2nd with no 3rd Class are invariably post-war mistakes, granted that way without the regulation lower class first. In some cases, amybe recipients THOUGHT a higher class replaced a lower one-- normal for just about all other Prussian awards?

[Komtur]

All the glory is for Daniel

he found a very close match: Marine-Generalarzt Dr. Ernst B?se

From the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierskorps:

PRAO is on the bar

EK1 is on the brest

EK2 is on the bar

PDAK is on the bar

PRK3 is not on the bar, but PRK2 (and that is shown in the 1922 Marine-Rangliste)

PC is on the bar

BHK is on the bar

?RK2mKD is on the neck

RA3 and RR are not on the bar, but decorations from the later enemy Russia

TM3 is on the neck

TEH is on the breast

I like that idea very much

Edited April 11, 2008 by Komtur

[Komtur]

Ordensalmanach 1908/9

Marinestammliste 1922

Marine-Ehrenrangliste

Edited April 11, 2008 by Komtur

[Guest Rick Research]

"PCh" is the weird abbreviation they used for the China Medal? What on Earth is the "P" for?

B?se's portrait ? in the Biblio Verlag Admirals' biographies only shows him from his neck up wearing a Reichsmarine cap:

His service record confirms a late arrival in China as things were winding down in 1901, with duty at Tsingtau.

He died in Bad Pyrmont 12 March 1949.

I'll change the thread title. Worth the long process of tracking B?se down, I'd say!

[Komtur]

"PCh" is the weird abbreviation they used for the China Medal? What on Earth is the "P" for?

Many Thanks Rick, for the additional information and the portrait. I would appreciate, if you could change the title of this thread.

The abbreviation PC in the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?tskorps seems to mean the Prussian Centenar Medal. So the China Medal is missing in this Stammliste, but it is mentioned in the Ordens-Almanach and it make sense because of B?ses duty in China. Again we see, that even with the exactness of Prussian civil servants some little mistakes can happen.

Best regards, Komtur.

[Paul C]

You make a very good point. None of the reference material, DOA, Ranklists, etc. are 100% accurate. Information should always be cross referenced and double checked. That is why have a large extensive library is worth the cost.

[webr55]

From the 1918 ranklist, I would never have guessed on him. His entry there shows: RAO4, EK2, XXV, PRKM3. I find it surprising that he didn't even have a PKO4 in 1918, but got the PKO2 until 1922... Where is that shown?

In any case, that again shows how important it would be to get the crew books from the 1930s, listing ALL awards for the crew members.

[Komtur]

From the 1918 ranklist, I would never have guessed on him. His entry there shows: RAO4, EK2, XXV, PRKM3. I find it surprising that he didn't even have a PKO4 in 1918, but got the PKO2 until 1922... Where is that shown?

The here showed sources never mentioned any PKO

Best regards, Komtur.

[webr55]

The here showed sources never mentioned any PKO

Best regards, Komtur.

So we know it from this Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierkorps? I had never heard of that before; it would be very interesting if ALL awards are in there. It seems the entry you showed lists only wartime awards...

[Komtur]

In the end I could find the real bar of Marine-Generaloberarzt Dr. Konrad Bobrik ?

[Deutschritter]

After 13 years you have it ... congratulations! May I ask a question to Ernst Böse? I understand RA3 (St. Annen-Orden), but was does RR mean? And what about BHK? Bayern or Braunschweig? Thank you!

Edited September 24, 2021 by Deutschritter