Medal Bar to a Hanovarian

[Gordon Craig]

I bought this medal bar in late 1998 while I was living in Belgrade. I didn't realize just how interesting it was until I arrived home and discovered that the last medal, the Langensaza-Austrian War Medal-1866, had the name "E. M?ngh" on the rim. I sent a letter to Germany enquiring about this named medal plus some named 1933/1945 uniforms I had in my collection. I received a very good answer on the uniforms and was advised in the same letter that someone else would respond about the named medal. Unfortunately, this was just at the time NATO commenced the bombing of Jugoslavia and this second letter never reached me. Does anyone have any information on this man?

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The reverse of the bar.

[Gordon Craig]

A close up of the bars on the 1870/71 War Medal.

[webr55]

Could you show us the inscription? Is it definitely "Müngh", not "Münch"? Is that an "E.", not a "P" or "Ph"?

Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55

[Glenn J]

Gordon,

I thought that this would have been relatively simple. However.......

No one of the name M?ngh with an EK from 1870. Therefore must be M?nch.

Only one officer from the former state of Hannover with that name and an Ernst-August Order - Philipp Eberhard Rudolf M?nch - later Generalleutnant z.D. However he was dead in 1907

[webr55]

Gordon,

I thought that this would have been relatively simple. However.......

No one of the name M?ngh with an EK from 1870. Therefore must be M?nch.

Only one officer from the former state of Hannover with that name and an Ernst-August Order - Philipp Eberhard Rudolf M?nch - later Generalleutnant z.D. However he was dead in 1907

That's the one I was aiming at, too.

However, this bar has been fiddled with. In second place, that must be a long service award, probably an XXV. Also, if I remember it correctly, the ribbon of the Ernst August Order is different from the one used here.

[Gordon Craig]

GlennJ,

Sorry but I was mistaken. I just took a better look and it is M?nch as you sugested. The initial at the beginning is not E either. It is a script letter that is hard to make out but in the photo i've just taken it could be a "B". Sorry the picture isn't better. This the best my digital camera will do.

Regards,

Gordon

[webr55]

The combination of battle clasps indicates II. Armeekorps.

[Glenn J]

The combination of battle clasps indicates II. Armeekorps.

In this particular Stammliste his leading first name is given as Eberhardt although it appears he was generally known as Philipp M?nch.

Regards

Glenn

[Glenn J]

Which would fit for Hauptmann Philipp M?nch as the Adjutant of the 4. Infanterie-Division and exactly as per his entry in the Offizier-Stammliste of Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 50.

Regards

Glenn

[Glenn J]

Last part of Stammliste entry

Regards

Glenn

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all of your help in identifying the man who wore this bar and a special thank you to GlennJ.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited December 17, 2007 by Gordon Craig

[Guest Rick Research]

OK, so in second place should be a Prussian XXV Years Service Cross...

but what is with the ribbon of the Hannoverian Napoleonic Centennial (presumably one of the 1903-1905 ones) third from the end?

It looks like the correct "Red Eagle" ribbon on the REVERSE-- as if another ribbon is laid over that, on top?

Gordon-- the date on reverse of that medal will further confirm identification of his old regiment.

[Daniel Cole]

Is it possible the third medal was a RAO that was returned to the Orders Chancellory after his death, then someone put something else in its place? Could the 2nd medal have been a Crown Order of some type?

Interesting group.

[Guest Rick Research]

No-- he was a Generalleutnant. His Prussian Orders have "moved up."

[Ulsterman]

sweet!

Congratulatiojs on a great piece-and thanks to Glenn for showing us-very interesting, "normal" career for the era.

[Glenn J]

Unfortunately I do not have an 1893 Rangliste (the last he would have been listed in). The 1892 shows him with an RAO3. He presumably received the RAO2 either shortly before or just after his retirement in 1894. The following from the 1892 Rangliste and the 1904-1905 Ordens-Almanach respectively.

Regards

Glenn

[Dave Danner]

Unfortunately I do not have an 1893 Rangliste (the last he would have been listed in). The 1892 shows him with an RAO3. He presumably received the RAO2 either shortly before or just after his retirement in 1894. The following from the 1892 Rangliste and the 1904-1905 Ordens-Almanach respectively.

Regards

Glenn

1893:

[Gordon Craig]

Dave,

Thanks for filling in the final piece of the puzzle.

Regards,

Gordon

[Guest Rick Research]

Gordon reports that the Hannoverian Jubilee is the 1903 reverse type, which is yet another confirmation-- that being for members of what became Fusileer Regiment 73 as well as other units.

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

With regard to the questions raised in posts #6 and #13 about the ribbons of the Ernst August Order and the Hannoverian Jubilee medal, I would like to offer the following.

The Ernst August Order ribbon is quite correct. Below is the same decoration on the same ribbon as seen on the medal bar of Ernst August, Duke of Brunswick (Royal Family of Hannover).

[Wild Card]

The ribbon on the Hannover jubilee medal, in my opinion, is also correct; which at the same time raises an interesting question. The medals in this series (there are nine of them) most often appear on what is referred to as the ?red eagle? ribbon.

[Wild Card]

At the same time, many single pieces also appear on avery similar ribbon which have side stripes in what I call ?brick red? which is less orange than the ?red eagle? stripes.

[Wild Card]

From my observations over the years, I think that it is safe to say that the ribbon on the majority of mounted pieces is the same as Gordon Craig?s example. Why? I do not know; but I do suspect that this is faded ?brick red? ribbon - making this the original ribbon which was often to be replaced by ?red eagle? stock.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Wild Card

[Yankee]

Gentlemen,

With regard to the questions raised in posts #6 and #13 about the ribbons of the Ernst August Order and the Hannoverian Jubilee medal, I would like to offer the following.

The Ernst August Order ribbon is quite correct. Below is the same decoration on the same ribbon as seen on the medal bar of Ernst August, Duke of Brunswick (Royal Family of Hannover).

Hi Wild Card

What an absolutely fantastic row of orders, one seldom finds an Ernst August with hollow crowns even more so on a bar. Any chance to see the rest of the bar? As I understand these crowns were only issued before the Duchy was absorbed into Prussia.

Sincerely

Yankee