Bavarian MVK1XsKr

[Franken75]

I forgot to say that, for the early types up to 1916, it's quite evident the multi-pieces construction of the center medallion...

I would love to adquire a medal bar with a REAL MVK 1. Kl. If anybody knows somebody selling it, please let me know!!!

I also know a very big Bavarian collector and part-time dealer and also museum curator that sold me several of these pieces that he upgraded himself in his atelier... I saw the atelier... He never told me that the pieces he sold me were upgraded, though! That's why his prices were so good... no wonder all his pieces looked like brand new. He's quite an artist also with enamel repairs... :-((((((

Of course in his own collection he kept only the good ones and he's not going to sell them...

My brother told me that in order to be a good collector you must be also very egoist... that's why my brother doesn't have a good collection... maybe I am more selfish than he's or maybe I only spend more...

Ciao,

Claudio

Ciao Claudio,

the man who sells this upgraded ones(I know him too) in my eyes he is an criminal, destroying nice Originals(given to brave men ,even if its a MVK 3.ClassX) and sell them for rare pieces. Some times ago there was an nice early(colonial) MVO 4b downgraded as an MVK first type also destroyed by this b....rd.

When I write anything in a forum I only want to stop these manipulated pieces going around.

I must correct you because the early types from Leser(1913-1916) have not a multi piece center construction, but a one piece center made out of pure gold when you look again the pictures in the mff look at the the last MVK1X made by Leser with the Beamtenband, these pictures demonstrate very good how a early real gold(one piece) center from Leser must look like(very fine and a little bit like 3D). There is also a picture of an Original MVK first class with crown and swords made by Leser with exactly the same center. Sammlerchris posted this one a few threds ago.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Franken75

[Claudio]

Thanks Franken for your info. I didn't know that the Leser's MVK1.Kl. with Golden center medallion was constructed in one piece... I looked it up what Sammlerchris posted, but I couldn't find it.

Could you find it for me and post it here?

Ciao,

Claudio

[Franken75]

Thanks Franken for your info. I didn't know that the Leser's MVK1.Kl. with Golden center medallion was constructed in one piece... I looked it up what Sammlerchris posted, but I couldn't find it.

Could you find it for me and post it here?

Ciao,

Claudio

Chris sent the link in that Threat where you have posted your nice Luftwaffenspange with the nice Hemmerle MVK2KrX. And you can also find it in the Datenbank from the mff.This thread was started in 28. Dec.07

Regards

[Richard Gordon]

Another interesting discussion regarding these crosses.

I was going to ask, how does one know if the centre is real gold or not but after studying the cross that started this thread with the later examples posted, which are confirmed as real gold, one can see that the quaility of the external rim of the medallion is different in appearance. You can see the real gold examples are smooth, polished and a slightly different shade from the gilded cross, whereas the first one the rim is the same colour as the rest of the cross and is rough in appearance.

Is my observation correct in determining real gold from the 'upgraded' pieces?

Rich

[Ed Maroli]

I took a tiny file to scratch the side of the top medallion. It is silver that has been heavely gold plated. Has anyone ever tried unplating a piece? Thanks for all the help!

~Ed

[Ulsterman]

Aieeee-

Purchased from Spinks in 1998 no less.

Anyone have an idea as to how I can repair this fraudulently upgraded medal?

Also, i would be grateful if our German friends would privately PM me with any details of the man in Germany who is doing this. i would be happy to file a lawsuit here for civil fraud. It will cost me only $25 and it'll be well worth it to publicize the case. People are afraid to name names in case of a threatened libel suit, but it's quite allowable to discuss the merits of an unsealed legal case.

No one can sue you for libel if you are 'merely discussing the merits of an international fraud case'.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Ed Maroli]

I have only $100 into mine and am more than willing to experiment in unplating. From high school I remember it involves salt water and a battery.

[Franken75]

Another interesting discussion regarding these crosses.

I was going to ask, how does one know if the centre is real gold or not but after studying the cross that started this thread with the later examples posted, which are confirmed as real gold, one can see that the quaility of the external rim of the medallion is different in appearance. You can see the real gold examples are smooth, polished and a slightly different shade from the gilded cross, whereas the first one the rim is the same colour as the rest of the cross and is rough in appearance.

Is my observation correct in determining real gold from the 'upgraded' pieces?

Rich

Yes, that are a few important points for a center made out of gold, the one piece centers are a few more thin, like the silver ones. The best is if you have a Original in your hand that will say more than pictures.

But don`t forget that gilded MVK1X also exist(again other criteria), but gilded ones with crown do not exist.

Regards

[David Gregory]

Aieeee-

Purchased from Spinks in 1998 no less.

Anyone have an idea as to how I can repair this fraudulently upgraded medal?

Also, i would be grateful if our German friends would privately PM me with any details of the man in Germany who is doing this. i would be happy to file a lawsuit here for civil fraud. It will cost me only $25 and it'll be well worth it to publicize the case. People are afraid to name names in case of a threatened libel suit, but it's quite allowable to discuss the merits of un unsealed legal case. No one can sue you for libel if you are 'merely discussing the merits of a fraud case'.

Good idea!

As an owner of what now seems to be a questionable MVK2X, I would like to see the purveyor of these ruined pieces sweat a little. It might not help me, but it might stop him from screwing so many people in future.

[Ulsterman]

Franken:

What are the details of a gilded MVK1x? Any chance Ed and I have one of these or did we get hosed by Der Fraudmeister?

[Franken75]

Aieeee-

Purchased from Spinks in 1998 no less.

Anyone have an idea as to how I can repair this fraudulently upgraded medal?

Also, i would be grateful if our German friends would privately PM me with any details of the man in Germany who is doing this. i would be happy to file a lawsuit here for civil fraud. It will cost me only $25 and it'll be well worth it to publicize the case. People are afraid to name names in case of a threatened libel suit, but it's quite allowable to discuss the merits of un unsealed legal case. No one can sue you for libel if you are 'merely discussing the merits of a fraud case'.

Can you send a picture from the backside, I have to say again that gilded MVK1X exist and that one does not look bad.

[Franken75]

I'm not sure of this maker?

Can you also send a picture from the back ? Looks like Hemmerle.

[Ulsterman]

Fingers crossed:

He waits-breath baited.......

[Franken75]

That one from Ulsterman is by mine humble Opinion a doubtless Original

Made by Hemmerle

so wait before pushing orders into saltwater or doing any other bad things to them.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Franken75

[Ulsterman]

Yay!!

Thanks.

[Guest Rick Research]

My silence on this subject is not to be interpreted in any way whatsoever as endorsement or opposition to any claims or assertions made here or in any other thread on the subject of loose, unattributed, unmounted awards.

Believe whatever you want, in the absence or contradiction of any evidence you want. I weary of quoting St. John 20:25.

Meanwhile, given the apparently endless massacre going on with eCrap replated fakes, simply life. Don't buy ANY. Ever.

Don't worry: be happy.

[Scott P]

MVK1 Klass with Swords on ebay.de right now.TO me the unexperianced buyer.The enamel looks good.Sadly I dont have the money.But if I did I most likely would have bid on it.

Would I have made a mistake?I see the small green spot on the right arm.

mfg Scottp://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270206141229&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017ott

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=017

Edited January 23, 2008 by Scott P

[Ed Maroli]

I'm glad to see Ulstermans MVKI is authentic.

I'm willing to accept mine as a an upgraded MVK2. I just can't see the difference between my piece with a gilded silver medallion and the Type 3 Leser with the gilded silver medallion. I do believe the experts on this forum because my knowledge is quite limited with the MKVI. What am I to look for? Should I get the salt bath ready?

~ED