Yugoslavia Order of Brotherhood and Unity 1CL

[wlodzimierz]

Gentlemen,

I was offered lately this intersting Order of Brotherhood and Unity (BU) 1CL. On avers you see 6 torches it means it was made after 1963.

But on reverse you can see early, first type of pin-back made by IKOM. Usually you will find this type of pin back in order which were converted from screw-back. But in that case you will see serial number. I know that there are order of BU 1CL with 5 torches and serial number in 2000 range.

Does it mean that after 1963 still this type of pin-back was made or that this order was manufactured before 1963 as 5torches version and later it was changed to 6 torches?

The laurel wreath should be gilded, we should see difference between wreath and other silver part of order. As we know, with the time many order lost the class information on reverse. Could it be that we see hier 5 torches BU 2CL which was remanufactured to 6 torches BU 1CL?

What is your opinion?

best regards

waldemar

[Bryan]

I think you don't have to worry about the exceptions you can encounter in Yugoslavian medals. There must have been no real "rule" of hoe to make the orders. I guess they only used what they had in stock to make their orders. In that case I'm sure this award is post-1963 because of the torches. The pinback configuration of that particular order makes me think that they only used what they have in stock before to use something else.

[Lapa]

I think you don't have to worry about the exceptions you can encounter in Yugoslavian medals. There must have been no real "rule" of hoe to make the orders. I guess they only used what they had in stock to make their orders. In that case I'm sure this award is post-1963 because of the torches. The pinback configuration of that particular order makes me think that they only used what they have in stock before to use something else.

Bryan,

Definitely makes sense!

Marc

[Anatoly13]

I agree with Bryan.

[Explorer]

I've seen these before, nothing special.

1. screw-type

2. converted to pinback in ZIN kovnica

All other types are made at a later stage. wlodzimiers, yours is defenitly OBU 1 and made after 63.

[Anatoly13]

Other type.

[Anatoly13]

[wlodzimierz]

Thank you Anatoly for sharing your lovlies with us.

best regards

waldemar

[wlodzimierz]

I think you are right Bryan,

Do you think that we will see 6torches with screw-back?

best regards

waldemar

[Christian Zulus]

Lieber Waldemar,

there is something wrong with the BU 1cl, you showed to us - at least the medaillon is a bit out of order and the laureal wreath is not gilded, if I compare it to my one and to Anatoly's one:

Best regards

Christian

Gentlemen,

I was offered lately this intersting Order of Brotherhood and Unity (BU) 1CL. On avers you see 6 torches it means it was made after 1963.

But on reverse you can see early, first type of pin-back made by IKOM. Usually you will find this type of pin back in order which were converted from screw-back. But in that case you will see serial number. I know that there are order of BU 1CL with 5 torches and serial number in 2000 range.

Does it mean that after 1963 still this type of pin-back was made or that this order was manufactured before 1963 as 5torches version and later it was changed to 6 torches?

The laurel wreath should be gilded, we should see difference between wreath and other silver part of order. As we know, with the time many order lost the class information on reverse. Could it be that we see hier 5 torches BU 2CL which was remanufactured to 6 torches BU 1CL?

What is your opinion?

best regards

waldemar

Edited March 12, 2008 by Christian Zulus

[wlodzimierz]

Lieber Christian,

I checked again and found out that there are some BU1 where you will find the same 'problem' as in this order. The laurel wreath which should be gilded look like normal silver. I found it in one very similiar BU1 with 5 torches, two rivet construction converted to pinback with 'lock'.

I think that Bryan is right and this order is OK.

best regards

waldemar

[Anatoly13]

I agree,it may be happened that they use main part of 2-nd class for made 1-st.

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

I already recognized, that with YU-orders you will find much more weird variations, than with CCCP-orders .

Best regards

Christian

[Eric Gaumann]

Gentlemen and ladies; I finally got my OoB&U 1c recently and am posting here.  There are two other threads for this award:

 

Thread 1: 

Thread 2: 

 

 

I don't think we have a classification of this grade yet so I call this model (with horizontal double pin and old style catch) a Type 2.  Type 1 has the original screwpost and screwplate (perhaps different plates) while the T3 has the double horizontal pin with the later type catch.  Was there ever issued a vertical pin, like on the Merit to the People orders?

Here are some images of the attachment system.

And here are the full obverse and reverse shots.  It's hard to see but the reverse is very 'shinney' despite the patina.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Eric Gaumann
added image #2

[BalkanCollector]

Nice addition Eric!

[Eric Gaumann]

5 hours ago, BalkanCollector said:

Nice addition Eric!

Thanks!  The pin 'keeper/holder' thing is not very effective.  It slides open easily, and by the looks of it it must have taken time and a few extra steps to manufacture and attach to the award body.  Not surprised we see so few of these models.  And that's the reason I got this one, despite the fact I almost always prefer the original screwpost models.

Have you seen any other versions of the reverse of this award beside the screwpost,  pin with slide closure (this version), and the rotary pin closure system?

[BalkanCollector]

6 hours ago, Eric Gaumann said:

Have you seen any other versions of the reverse of this award beside the screwpost,  pin with slide closure (this version), and the rotary pin closure system?

I've only seen the types that you've mentioned and I think that the type which you have is the rarest for this order.

I also prefer the original screwpost types. Beautiful silver pieces!

[Eric Gaumann]

Here's a few interesting images from ebay showing different 1c(?) 5 torch versions.

First (1 image); one with the early style pin & catch but without a serial number and without evidence of a screwpost!

Second (3 images), one with the screwpost and 1k number, an early IKOM screwplate but without the gilding on the wreath!

Third (1 image); early pin, sub-2k number, unfilled hole for screwpost, and no maker or content marks! edit: evidence of screwpost removal, and possible maker mark (hard to tell, to the left of the screwpost hole.)

Fourth (2 images), two different items; both with gilded wreath, screwpost with later style screwplate, with maker and content marks but without serial numbers!

Hope I got the images in order!

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Eric Gaumann

[BalkanCollector]

1 hour ago, Eric Gaumann said:

Hope I got the images in order!

Everything's in order. Thanks for the images!