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She's A Lady: Prussian Frauenverdienstkreuz in Silber


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A local friend with an amazing eye and phenomenal luck :cheers: has just plucked this out of obscurity.

I am COMPLETELY beyond ANY knowledge here.

Is this the FIRST type, updated to the M1907 (110 "exchanges" per the late Eric Ludvigsen) or is this how the M1907-18 was made? (155 as of January 1913)

When it comes by to visit, will make Really Big Magic Epson Scans.

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Is this the FIRST type, updated to the M1907 (110 "exchanges" per the late Eric Ludvigsen) or is this how the M1907-18 was made? (155 as of January 1913)

Sorry Rick, for the delayed answer, but I was not sure at first. But according to Peter Sauerwald and his articles in OMM 21/2002 and OMM Jahrbuch 2002 you are right: you?ve got the first type 1893-1907, a kind of juwellery and not the order. The only difference to the order 1907-1918 seems to be the additional needle. From the above source I add the number awarded. But this number is not complete, Sauerwald counts only the awards published in the "Reichsanzeiger" and "K?niglich Preu?ischen Staatsanzeiger". The number for the order is from the "K?niglich Preu?ische Ordensliste" (1907-1913) and from the "K?niglich Preu?ischer Staatsanzeiger" (1913-1918). In the last list you find 1893-1907 a number of 110. That is the number of "exchanged" awards from the first type to the second one. I really do not know, what that means, because in my opinion, it makes no sense to remove the needle to get the second type. But even Peter Sauerwald had no answer...

Edited by Komtur
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TERRIFIC detailed information!!!! :jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping: Thanks! :cheers:

I wonder if the "EXCHANGES" were actual only MODIFICATIONS? My friend's new treasure looks like it was ??? "officially" modified to look like the M1907 from the front. Maybe they did not REPLACE the older pieces, but ALTERED them?

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TERRIFIC detailed information!!!! :jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping: Thanks! :cheers:

I wonder if the "EXCHANGES" were actual only MODIFICATIONS? My friend's new treasure looks like it was ??? "officially" modified to look like the M1907 from the front. Maybe they did not REPLACE the older pieces, but ALTERED them?

I don?t think so Rick. First, if that ?se suspension rod, horizontal pin and that curved wire doohickey on the first type had been removed (modified) on the second type, I think that there would be visible traces of it. I have a second type and there is absolutely no evidence of such work on it. See below.

I think that I have the answer; but it is going to be hard to explain, please bear with me. Do a side by side comparison of the reverse views of the two examples that we have here and you will find that there is a lot more open (see through) space in the first type. Now, looking at the obverse - there is a recessed ?shelf? around the hole in the center upon which cross, et al., insignia is set. Because this ?shelf is just a tiny bit wider on the second type, it blocks out that area which we see on the first type; but not the second.

Therefore, assuming the same outside diameter of the body, I suspect that the diameter of the hole in the center, when measured from the reverse side, is smaller on the second type than on the first because it includes this larger shelf.

I hope that I have explained this clearly, if you have any questions, please let me know.

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I see what you mean-- MUCH more of the flower/cross design shows through from the reverse of my LUCKY friend's piece. Its owner must have treasured the ORIGINAL "from The Imperial And Royal Hands of..." piece and self-updated it for continued wear--

as we see so often with Soviet awards whose designs changed.

At some point I'm sure we can arrange a Magic Epson Scanner session and get some Really Big Scans. :cheers:

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 3 months later...

Brought back up for thread:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31870

and since THIS thread stubbornly refuses to come up on any SEARCH :banger: let's try RETYPING versions of the award's name

Frauen Verdienst Kreuz

Frauenverdienst Kreuz

Frauen Verdienstkreuz.

Maybe "Frauenverdienstkreuz" in the correct one word is too long for the wretched Search "function" ??? :banger: :speechless:

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