webr55 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) Gentlemen, here's something I think I was lucky to get: Ribbon #4: Princely House Order of Hohenzollern, 3rd class w/o swords, with crown. According to Nimmergut, it was awarded to Beamten and officers up to Hauptmann. 71 awards from 1905-1927 (continued to be awarded in Weimar times). Ribbon #5: If I am not mistaken, this is the Star of Brabant. The combination with the RAO suggests a Knight 1st class with crown. Now there weren't many of them around... actually four, and seven for the Knight 2nd with crown. Nimmergut lists all recipients (well, only six for the 2nd cl). But only one of them was an officer, a certain Major der Landwehr Hans Eberhardt, Handelsrichter (commercial judge), on 5.6.1918 Should this be his bar? Regards Chris Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) The back: Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) Closeup of the crowns: Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Does the roll you are citing show the OTHER information (as originals usually did)-- birthdate, residence, and so on? There are too many Eberhardts to sort out, and no apparent match in the 1908/09 Orders Almanach-- but then the factory owner Hans in Berlin there could be this guy BEFORE he got any Orders at all. (That guy had a Prussian XX but listed no RANK).I have never seen a Brabant ribbon bar before. The backing looks good, but in these perilous, fake-flooded times:ARE THE RIBBONS SILK? I have certainly never seen FAKE ribbon bars with the Brabant either.... but then before this past year's deluge of phony Danzig Cross ribbon bars, had never seen one of THOSE on real ribbon bars (still haven't, for that matter) before.I think you have found a jewel indeed. A nice straight horizontal larger scan (say 50% larger than posted already) of both sides and closeups of the complete ribbons with crown devices at x500 percent would be MOST appreciated for any future Ribbon Bar opus, since this is a first and may well be the last time we ever see a good Brabant bar!!! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 Nimmergut, alas, lists only the information I have given. No info about birth etc. The four recipients of the Brabant Knight's 1st with crown are:1) Geh. Med.rat Dr. Michael Reisinger, from a hospital in Mainz2) Prof. Biermann, im Kabinett f?r Kunstpflege (seems to be an art historian)3) Hans Eberhardt4) Lawyer and "Justizrat" Wilhelm Gr?newald, chairman of the University Society Gie?en, on 26.6.1918I also found this factory owner in the OA 1908/09. But he is listed as a Hauptmann der Reserve in Berlin. with PrLD1 indeed! I think it must be him, though I don't know how he got to be a judge.Dumb question: how do I determine whether it is silk? The whole bar certainly looks good, very clean and minty. Closeups to follow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The ribbons look like new. I hope you checked them with a blacklight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Silk is smoother under a fingertip than the WW2 type ribbons (try comparing one of each and you will see what I mean), but indeed, if these are new ribbons the whites will glow bright electric blue under a blacklight. Silk ribbons of the Imperial period are usually straight across "ribbed" woven rows, so the watered "moir?" as seen on the Hohenzollern ribbon is what made me twitch too.So far, the frauds we have seen coming out of Hesse have been of WW1 combinations on 1930s+ backings. This is definitely a WW1-1920s backing plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Still, a handsome bar regardless of who owns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 The ribbons are definitely silk, smooth as can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Pretty special little bar, the pin/hinge looks very close to that odd medal bar I had earlier this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) Quite a sensation. I do own 2 full size medal bars, one with a knight first with crown and one with a knight first. I do know only one other bar that is now in the collection of one of the forum members. Edited October 20, 2005 by medalnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Krause Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi,that bar is a hit!!!The Star of Brabant is really a rare one!!!This is the exact 2nd ribbon bar with one of them and the first one with a crown I see.if You do not mind, may I use the pic for my ribbon bar project?????Best regardsDaniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 Thanks all for your comments! Yes, you may all use my pictures. Here's a larger scan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 The crowns: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 Daniel, have you got a pic of that other Brabant ribbon bar?Andreas, has your Knight's 1st with crown bar been ID'd? Has to be one of the other three mentioned by Nimmergut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Welcome onboard Daniel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Daniel, have you got a pic of that other Brabant ribbon bar?Andreas, has your Knight's 1st with crown bar been ID'd? Has to be one of the other three mentioned by Nimmergut!No, it has not, yet I bought it from the family who could not recall the actual recipient. Amazing how some people treat their family heritage (...well, good for us collectors).I try to dig out a picture of it to post.Let me also mention that those numbers in Nimmergut's "book" are not correct. I believe that those are only the Hessian recipients. The person that actually did the research in the first place had only the source for the Hessians availiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Of course I don't have a picture of the one handy with the knight first with crown, but here is a picture of the other one in my collection: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Fabulous bar Andreas............... rare in the extreme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Anybody wants to guess who the bearer of all those goodies is? I also have the documents.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Gorgeous bar, Andreas. Thanks for sharing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 Let me also mention that those numbers in Nimmergut's "book" are not correct. I believe that those are only the Hessian recipients. The person that actually did the research in the first place had only the source for the Hessians availiable.I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Certainly my guy was Prussian.Superb bar, anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medalnet Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Certainly my guy was Prussian.Superb bar, anyway!Yes, it is unfortunately true. It seems that most modern publications are a summary of secondary sources. So the result is that there is nothing ever new and all mistakes surface ones more. A shame!!!Yet, at least the quality of the pictures is getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I would agree with Andreas on this. It seems curious that a lot of the newer reference books seem to simp;y cite/perpetuate the errors of their predecessors....... There seems to be very little "new" research going on except amongst a small circle of guys & gals. Exceptions of course abound, notably Mssrs. Pandis, Previterra, L?ndtrom. etc. are constantly searching for new details and information. I know there are many more, but few of them get published which is just a darn shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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