Austria-Hungary F?hnrich

[ccj]

What awards could a F?hnrich have received during WW1? What are the chances he would have had the 1913 mobilization Cross or a long service cross? I understand he would be award the enlisted man's bravery medals?

[Guest Rick Research]

Officer cadets had less than 2 years time in when they were commissioned. Down to 18 months during the war. So no long service. Given the time delay in awarding the Mobilization Cross, if a F?hnrich at the time,would have become a Leutnant by the time they were handed out.

How many loops have you got to fill?

I had a tiny (U.S. man's size 28, if such a thing existed) F?hnrich tunic 30 years ago that had three loops-- presumably 2 Bravery Medals and the Troop Cross.

[ccj]

8 i think... 3 bravery, troop cross, wound medal, then I'm at a loss

Edited July 13, 2008 by ccj

[Ulsterman]

Any chance a long serving technical service NCO who got bumped up?

[Guest Rick Research]

Yeah-- Charles-- that's no F?hnrich. Post scans of the tabs. It's got to be the equivalent (I don't know what they were called in the K.u.k. forces) of a German Feuerwerker or similar career path...

orrrrrrrrrrr somebody never commissioned in 1918 still wearing that uniform in the 1930s festooned with all the various and sundry WW1 Commemorative Medals.

Here's Dr. Mihaly Balkanyi as a medical F?hnrich/? Unterarzt on the outbreak of war in 1914:

He'd done his purely military training as a One Year Volunteer(in 1912 but I don't know if that was 1911-12 or 1912-13) in the 25th J?ger Battalion halfway through his undergraduate college years, then was called back out for the war (as above), commissioned Assistenzarzt d.R. in 1915, and promoted Oberarzt d.R. in 1917.

Mere service during the Balkans Wars years 1912-13 did NOT qualify for the Mobilization Cross-- if I recall correctly that required actual service on the frontiers along where the troubles were.

[ccj]

Yeah-- Charles-- that's no F?hnrich. Post scans of the tabs.

Rich,

That's a very nice photo. Here's the best I can do on a tab shot from the photo I have presently.

[ccj]

Rich,

That's a very nice photo. Here's the best I can do on a tab shot from the photo I have presently.

Wouldn't a man be a "one man volunteer" or a cadet before becoming a F?hnrich? Is it possible a man who volunteered in 1914 could just be a F?hnrich in 1916 or 1917? Maybe even 1918 depending on the procession through the ranks to become an officer.

http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/kadett.html

Edited July 13, 2008 by ccj

[Guest Rick Research]

No. As I understand it, RESERVE officer candidates, just as in the German army during the war, would have been known by their "NCO" rank title, and worn THOSE ranks--

"Vizefeldwebel-Offizieraspirant" sort of insignia/titles.

A F?hnrich was a REGULAR army cadet, age usually about 20, with a very short time period in that grade.

Absolutely STUNNING patchs (what targets! ) on that tunic. They look the exact bright, egg-yolk yellow of later Luftwaffe flying troops. What regiment wore that color?

Your man must have just not made it before the 1918 collapse and was still wearing his old uniform in the 1930s with

Austrian WW1 Commemorative Medal, Tyrol WW1 Commemorative Medal (if unit served there), Hungarian WW1 Commemorative Medal, Bulgarian WW1 Commemorative Medal--that's 4.

Say two bravery medals, a Troop Cross, and Karl Wound Medal and there's your other 4.

[ccj]

Medals not placed by me. I know these are not the correct choices. Color is more brown than gray.

[Gordon Craig]

CCJ,

That is a great looking tunic. Cut in the 1908 Field style and looks new. I am not an expert in this area but it seems to me it would be hard for a Faehnrich to acquire eight medals in the short length of time they spent in that rank. According to "The Emperors Coat" those yellow collar tabs would have been worn by a one year volunteer. They are termed "Kaiser-yellow" in the book. I've attached a photo from the book of a one year volunteer Gefreiter in a privately tailored uniform. There is also a list of a number of regiments that wore yellow facing, and their corresponding button colour, on their parade tunics. Two other colours of yellow are mentioned-Sulphur Yellow and Imperial Yellow.

Regards,

Gordon

[ccj]

Gordon,

Thanks for the information. It may be as Rick indicated, the owner wore it after the war with his service medals. Maybe he didn't make his promotionto Lt...

I don't know, I can't wrap my mind around the one year, cadet, reservist, etc, etc, and the time factor... :banger:

[Ian]

Gordon,

I believe that it is not the yellow collar tabs that denote the one year volunteer status, but the small button at the rear of the collar tab.

My understanding is that prior to early (March?) 1915 One Year Volunteers wore a 1cm wide yellow stripe, with a narrower black stripe in the centre, around each cuff. After 1915 a small button was introduced (same colour as the button worn on the uniform) to replace the cuff stripes. The button was placed centrally at the rear of the collar tab as shown in the picture you posted.

Ian

[Gordon Craig]

Ian,

Thanks for the correction. You are of course correct. The English translation of The Emporer's Coat sometimes needs a little more attention than I gave it. Hard to tell what colour the buttons are from the photo but the yellow collar tabs could then be for;

Kaisergelb (Imperial yellow) for German regiments #27, yellow buttons & #22, white buttons; for Hungarian regiments #2, yellow buttons & #31, white buttons;

and for Schwefelgelb (sulphur yellow) for German regiments #99, yellow buttons & #41, white buttons; for Hungarian regiments #16, yellow buttons & #101, white buttons.

Regards,

Gordon

[ccj]

So, the Fahnrich tunic I posted is for infantry? Very nice but the tunic is not as minty as the photos depicts but still very nice.

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

I would say yes it is for infantry. After a closer look at my reference material and your picture, your tunic appears to be closer to the 1916 model tunic then the original 1908 design because of the stand and fall collar. Probably a custom made tunic. They came in all kind of minor variations, colours etc. I keep looking for Field tunics when I am in Vienna but so far no luck. Just pre 1908 dress tunics and they are being priced out of my reach.

Regards,

Gordon

[Ian]

Gordon,

Just as a ball park figure what are pre 1908 dress tunics going for?

Ian

[Gordon Craig]

Ian,

Vienna is the most expensive place to buy them. Depends what you want. A plain artillery tunic (brown) without any loops for awards etc. and in good condition runs about 250 euros. It could go as high as 400 euros. A blue infantry tunic, if you could find one, would start at around 600 euros. A calvary tunic of any kind would start at 600 euros. There is an infantry tunic for an officers school available in a Vienneses store right now for 1000. euros. Beamten tunics go for around 400. euros. Hats are just not avaiable in stores although I bought a Beamten fore and aft cap last year for 200. euros. With the falling dollar these prices are too high for me.

Regards,

Gordon

[ccj]

This one looks 100% correct to me and it has a bit of a brownish hew.

[ccj]

Underside. I'm not sure why there are hand stitches

[ccj]

Hello.

Do you think it would be a correct one?

THANKS

Nice graphic. YOu should do all Austrian ranks. You would be able to show the differenc in pattern between field officer and general insignia.

[ccj]

You are good and with your talent should be able to show the difference in pattern between field officer and general insignia.

I see you have already done most ranks and posted the forum...

http://granguerra.crearforo.com/iconos-aus...cos-es1708.html

Major

Edited July 19, 2008 by ccj

[ccj]

General

A general has 3 stipes in the pattern and a field officer only has 2.

[ccj]

All right ccj, those was the photos and the asesor I ned

I will work in this theme and put results here to know what you think about, if you d'ont mind of course.

Thank you ccj.

You bet... a better photo of the major's tab. I think its easier to see the two stripes as opposed to the 3 on the general.

[Gordon Craig]

Boris,

Nice graphics on both this thread and the link provided for us. It would be nice to see the Austro-Hungarian ranks posted here. Perhaps you could add the graphis for the different cuff patterns of the Austrian and Hungarian regiments.

Regards,

Gordon

[Elmar Lang]

I think he means the three or two lines in the zick-zack.

E.L.