What have we here?

[dond]

Two Saxe-Meinegen awards. What is the difference between the two?

thanks

Don

[dond]

The other side since I'm clueless as to front and back.

[dond]

The other award.

[Claudio]

Hi Don,

The first (medal) was awarded EM and NCOs and the second (cross with crown) to officer... for war merit.

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited October 22, 2005 by Claudio

[dond]

Thanks Claudio. Is there a first class version of this award?

Don

[Guest Rick Research]

The "B" for Bernhard goes on front. These were "it" outside the grades of the Saxe Ernestine House Order. These two were specially created for WW1.

Here's a variant award document for the officer's version:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2888

[Claudio]

Don,

This is a late war Zinc version of the Officers' cross. There wasn't a so called "Steckkreuz" or 1st class decoration to be worn on the pocket.

Claudio

[dond]

Thanks guys. Now to find a ribbon for the officer's award.

Don

[Dave Danner]

The proper names are the Cross for Merit in War (Kreuz f?r Verdienste im Kriege), which is the officer's version, and the Medal for Merit in War (Medaille f?r Verdienste im Kriege), which is the enlisted version, both established on March 7, 1915. There were 4,653 of the Cross and 24,038 awards of the Medal during the war.

As Rick mentioned, the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order would be the other award the duke could confer. A lieutenant might get the Knight 2nd Class with swords as his next award after the Cross for Merit in War.

The Cross for Merit in War on a medal bar:

The Medal for Merit in War on a medal bar:

Some more information on my Saxe-Meiningen awards page here: http://home.att.net/~ordersandmedals/saxemeiningen.htm

Edited October 23, 2005 by Dave Danner

[Dave Danner]

Technically, I guess, if I'm going to be a stickler for "proper" names, they are the Cross and Medal for Merits in War (unless in 1915 a masculine accusative took an "-e" like a dative). I think I need to fix my page.

[dond]

Thanks for the link and the info, including the conjugation in German lesson Dave.

Don

[Stogieman]

Nice bars David. I always enjoy seeing the Bulgarian awards in German Officer Groups!

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

In an effort to round this discussion out a bit, I would mention that there was also an Orden f?r Verdienste von Frauen und Jungfrauen in der Kriegf?rsorge which was, in appearance virtually identical to the officer?s version, shown above; but, as near as I can figure it, about one half the size. These were worn on the noncombatant ribbon, configured as a bow; and, of course, are quite rare.

I hope that this information is helpful.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Claudio]

Wild Card,

Are you speaking of this award?

[Claudio]

Here's my brother's small bar with a Sachsen-Meiningen Kreuz f?r Verdienste im Kriege in Bronze...

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited October 23, 2005 by Claudio

[Claudio]

... and here a more impressive bar of a member of the ruler's family in Sachsen-Meiningen!

Ordenschnalle des Prinzen Georg von Sachsen-Meiningen

• Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2.Klasse (OEK 1909)

• Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803), ohne Hersteller

• Sachsen-Meiningen, Ehrenzeichen f?r Verdienste im Kriege, 1915-18 am K?mpferband (OEK 2717)

• Sachsen-K?nigreich, Albrecht-Orden, RK 2. Kl. mit Schwertern (OEK 2212)

• Bayern, Milit?r-Verdienstorden, Kreuz 4. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 410)

• Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Milit?rverdienstkreuz 2.Kl. am K?mpferband (OEK 1352)

• Schaumburg-Lippe, Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1914-18, am K?mpferband (OEK 1190)

• Osmanisches Reich (T?rkei), kleine goldene Liakat-medaille mit S?belspange

Research Rick Lundstr?m:

Leutnant 11.10.1908

Oberleutnant 25.02.1915 M26m

Rittmeister 27.01.1918 A4a

theoretically in Hussar Regt 16 and ? la Suite of Inf Rgt 95.

Rittmeister/Hauptmann aD

Like his wandering father, apparently no actual regimental service.

SA3bX 20.10.14 as Lt, no unit

The 1917 Almanch de Gotha Hofkalendar has him as "kdt. z. Gen. Kdo. G. Res. Kps."

Georg Of The One Name married in Freiburg im Breisgau 1919 Klara-Maria Gr?fin von Korff genannt Schmissing-Kerssenbrock (31.5.95-10.2.92) and they had FOUR children

1) Anton Ulrich, born 1919 killed in France 1940

2) Friedrich-Alfred (1921-1997) who was a monk (so must have switched to Catholic)

3) Marie Elisabeth (1922-1923) and

4) Regina Helene Elisabeth Margarete, born W?rzburg 6 January 1925, married Prinzen Georg von Sachsen-Meiningenin Nancy 10 May 1951 some guy named Otto Hapsburg (b. Villa Wertholz 20 November 1912).Oh, yeah-- he'd be Emperor of Austria-Hungary (if there was one).

And back to poor Georg Of The One Name:

HE died in a Soviet POW Camp at Tschernpovetz 6 January 1946.

Edited October 23, 2005 by Claudio

[notned]

Claudio! What a bar!

It never ceases to amaze me how the plain old Hindenburg cross gets moved around on a medal bar....this guy must have taken Hitlers drean seriously...

Thanks for showing! Spectacular!

Paul

[Dave Danner]

To further flesh things out for my first bar, and add a little mystery, here are the accompanying miniatures and an early ribbon bar:

Note that the recipient is a Bavarian but he received Prussian and Saxe-Meiningen wartime awards before the one from his home state.

Edited October 23, 2005 by Dave Danner

[Dave Danner]

Note the ciphers on the military awards are "B"s for Duke Bernhard, but on the women's award it is three interlocking "C"s. I have no idea why they interlock, but the C should be for Charlotte, Duchess of Saxe-Meiningen, Kaiser Wilhelm II's sister.

[Wild Card]

Wild Card,

Are you speaking of this award?

Yes, Claudio, that?s the one; and that?s a very nice example you have there - thank you for showing it. Dave, I had forgotten about the different monogram, Your assumption is correct in that, according to Hessenthal/Schreiber, this decoration was founded by Duchess Charlotte who was acting as regent on 3 March 1915 while the Duke was serving in the field.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Stogieman]

Excellent history, background and details gentlemen!

[saschaw]

Great decorations, great bar's at all - congratulations to all of you ...

In an effort to round this discussion out a bit, I would mention that there was also an Orden f?r Verdienste von Frauen und Jungfrauen in der Kriegf?rsorge which was, in appearance virtually identical to the officer?s version, shown above; but, as near as I can figure it, about one half the size. These were worn on the noncombatant ribbon, configured as a bow; and, of course, are quite rare.

Has anyone the awarding numbers of the lady's version?

I have also one of these nice crosses, and also two award documents for sisters. Only one pictured, as the other one does actually look the same (but naturally, with another name), even with the same awarding number in the left corner !!!