Christophe Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Socialism vs. RealityGentlemen,(...) So according to UK-laws the "quiz" is the intellectual property of Christophe, (...)ChristianAll in all, a nice happy end!!!! ... and a nice debate!! Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Manifesto - French versionAll in all, a nice happy end!!!! ... and a nice debate!! Ch.Dear Christophe,for you and Bryan, etc. the Manifesto in the French translation:http://www.marxists.org/francais/marx/work...mfe18470000.htmIt is an important (small) book of German philosophy and specially important to the collectors community of Soviet Awards, because the last words of the "Manifesto" you will find at some of the most important orders of the CCCR .Best regards ChristianBTW: Your appreciated question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 Here I am Now, a question about spies.Only two spies have ever been decorated by both the Soviet Union and the United States.1. Who are they ?2. What awards did they receive, and when ?3. For what actions, from both sides ?Good hunt!!! Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Here I am Now, a question about spies.Only two spies have ever been decorated by both the Soviet Union and the United States.1. Who are they ?2. What awards did they receive, and when ?3. For what actions, from both sides ?Good hunt!!! Cheers.Ch.Dear Christophe,brilliant question - and difficult .But the term "spy" is too unprecise. Who is a "spy"?Is President Putin a spy, who worked for the KGB in the GDR and received his Soviet long service awards and might have also got some US-Awards as a President of the RF ?The fact is, that all KGB- or GRU-officers, who changed the front and defected to the USA had all their long service awards (at least) from the CCCP and usually received at least one award from the USA. So, there might be more, than two persons, who received both - SU & US awards - as spies ?Are the top-generals of the former KGB or GRU, who received their Lenins, RBs, etc. from the CCCP and might have got some US-Awards after 1991, "spies" ? After 1991 a rather large number of former CCCP-Generals (now RF-Generals) got medals or orders from NATO-countries.Typical awards from the CCCP for spies had been usually a RS and in special cases a RB - also FoN or Octoberrevolution had been possible. But Lenin or HSU had been very rare. Only two German spies got the HSU: Sorge & Mielke (head of the GDR-MfS and more or less a "Birthday-HSU").I.e.: Here you find a list of all CCCP-Awards Misha Wolf, the famous "spy-chief" of the GDR, received: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13550And: A spy located in a NATO-country never got his award for taking home. At the Soviet Embassy or at a "save flat" there had been a small cermony, where the spy had been awarded with the order, but neither the decoration, nor the document or the OK had been handed out to the spy .So, please: What is a "spy" ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Good questions and points, Christian. May I precise the question ?Here, what do we understand as a spy ?1. These two persons have exerced their "spying" activities for both sides, for the benefit of USSR and USA. In fact they were what we call in French "agents doubles".2. They "spied" for both sides at the same time, during the same period.3. their awards, both from USSR and USA, have been awarded precisely for their "spying" activities, for nothing else.This excludes persons as Putin, who "spied" for one side, and got "honorific" awards only from the other side, as a head of state.It excludes also people who changed their camp (ex-KGB officers), with long service awards (or other awards) for past activities. We are talking about awards related to the "spying" activities.We are not talking about the 2 East-German HSUs.We are not talking here about awards given during a ceremony in a "save flat", but of awards given in official circumstances, by high personalities of both sides.I hope this is clarified enough to allow you to begin your hunt . Let's see now what you will all find.I remind the questions, with the precision it is "as spies" that they have been decorated :Only two spies have ever been decorated (as spies) by both the Soviet Union and the United States.1. Who are they ?2. What awards did they receive, and when ?3. For what actions, from both sides ?Good hunt. Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 No one to try or ask more details? Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I think you have us all thinking, looking, searching, puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 He, he!!! That's part of the game, isn't it? Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Dear Christophe,many thanks for your further notes .But that "awards given in official circumstances, by high personalities of both sides" I can not believe . They got their CCCP & US Awards in a public ceremony ?Another question to you:Did our two double agents had any personal relationship to each other?Best regardsChristianGood questions and points, Christian. May I precise the question ?Here, what do we understand as a spy ?1. These two persons have exerced their "spying" activities for both sides, for the benefit of USSR and USA. In fact they were what we call in French "agents doubles".2. They "spied" for both sides at the same time, during the same period.3. their awards, both from USSR and USA, have been awarded precisely for their "spying" activities, for nothing else.This excludes persons as Putin, who "spied" for one side, and got "honorific" awards only from the other side, as a head of state.It excludes also people who changed their camp (ex-KGB officers), with long service awards (or other awards) for past activities. We are talking about awards related to the "spying" activities.We are not talking about the 2 East-German HSUs.We are not talking here about awards given during a ceremony in a "save flat", but of awards given in official circumstances, by high personalities of both sides.I hope this is clarified enough to allow you to begin your hunt . Let's see now what you will all find.I remind the questions, with the precision it is "as spies" that they have been decorated :Only two spies have ever been decorated (as spies) by both the Soviet Union and the United States.1. Who are they ?2. What awards did they receive, and when ?3. For what actions, from both sides ?Good hunt. Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Double Agents - Wiki-Linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_agentBest regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Aldrich & Rosario Ames ?Double agents as a married couple:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_AmesBest regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RedThreat Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Christophe, Were they members of Red Capella spy network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Were they members of Red Capella spy network?Maybe , but Leopold Trepper had been till 1955 in NKVD-prison.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Orchestra_%28spy%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_TrepperAt least in the GDR they had been heros.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 (..)But that "awards given in official circumstances, by high personalities of both sides" I can not believe . They got their CCCP & US Awards in a public ceremony ?(...)ChristianChristian,Sorry to be late about answers to the quiz, but just came back from London today...I have never said it was a "public" ceremony. I just said these awards were given in official circumstances, by very high rank personalities from both sides. Indeed, these awards have been given in 2 different ceremonies .Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 (...)Another question to you:Did our two double agents had any personal relationship to each other?Best regardsChristianYes, they were brothers. Ooops... a hint .Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Aldrich & Rosario Ames ?Double agents as a married couple:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_AmesBest regards ChristianUnfortunately, the answer is no.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Christophe, Were they members of Red Capella spy network?Simon,The answer is no.Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 No new try ?I will help you... These two persons were brothers, and american citizens from russian origin.Hope this helps.Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 These two persons were brothers, and american citizens from russian origin.Dear Christophe,sorry, I found no brothers in that list:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Soviet_spiesSome married couples, but no brothers .Best regardsChristianP.S.: Maybe you can give us another hint, under which presidency (Roosevelt, Truman, etc.) in the USA the incident happened . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 P.S.: Maybe you can give us another hint, under which presidency (Roosevelt, Truman, etc.) in the USA the incident happened .Hi Christian,Difficult to answer and precise...Maybe I just could say that the Soviet awards have been (for one of the two brothers) presented by Brezhnev. The American awards have been presented by President Reagan. Not bad... even if they are not in the Wikipedia list.... (you know what to think about it...).Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 My question does not seem very inspiring ...A last hint that should help you partly answer to my questions 1. and 3. : Part of these answers is known as Operation Solo... But, now, you have to answer all 3 questions .Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Very inspiring, very difficult (for me at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 Ed,I don't believe a word of this... Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) Jack & Morris ChildsA last hint that should help you partly answer to my questions 1. and 3. : Part of these answers is known as Operation Solo... Dear Christophe,thanks for your last hint .John Barron, Operation Solo: The FBI's Man in the Kremlin (Regnery Publishing, 1996)Barron's book deals about the Childs brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Childs and more information in the NY Times http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...757C0A960958260 .Both had been Communists, working for the KGB, in top function at the US-Communist-Party AND spies for the FBI.1975 Jack & Morris received both a RB and 1987 the brothers got each a Presidential Medal of Freedom.I don't have this book of John Barron in my library - only his rather old and dated KGB-book .Best regardsChristian Edited February 3, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 NEW QUESTION Gentlemen,here is the new question - now about tanks :1. Which Soviet tank of the GPW had at the beginning of the GPW a much thicker armour, than some years later?2. Why did the constructors do so?3. What was the nickname of this tank given by the German Wehrmacht? (2 German words, which result in a funny name.)Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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