Christophe Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Jack & Morris ChildsDear Christophe,thanks for your last hint .John Barron, Operation Solo: The FBI's Man in the Kremlin (Regnery Publishing, 1996)Barron's book deals about the Childs brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Childs and more information in the NY Times http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...757C0A960958260 .Both had been Communists, working for the KGB, in top function at the US-Communist-Party AND spies for the FBI.1975 Jack & Morris received both a RB and 1987 the brothers got each a Presidential Medal of Freedom.I don't have this book of John Barron in my library - only his rather old and dated KGB-book .Best regardsChristianGreat Christian, you got it. Here are more details about this fascinating story :During most of the Cold War, donations were made from the Soviet Union to the CPUSA (Communist Party of the United States). The idea was encourage the revival of Communism on the territory of the Main Adversary after the disintegration of the Party in the mid-1950s. The leader of the CPUSA at that time (from 1959), was Gus Hall.In April 1958, Morris Childs, a veteran member of the CPUSA leadership and former editor of the ?Daily Worker? - the Party newspaper- , was invited to Moscow to discuss financial help for his party. Morris Childs was from russian origin; Morris Chilovsky being his name at birth. Subsidies were immediately given by Boris Ponomarev, head of the Central Committee international department. These took place at first via the Canadian Communist Party, and then directly through Morris Childs and his brother Jack Childs (an undeclared communist who had worked for the Komintern in the 1930?s). Morris Childs usually visited Moscow at least once a year to present the CPUSA budget and request for funds, and receive instructions from the International Department and the KGB. Jack acted as the main point of contact for the handover of money. The message with details for the transmission of the funds was passed via a coded message to a CPUSA radio operator in New York, and then passed to Jack Childs.But, since the early 1950?s both Morris and Jack Childs were also FBI agents, as it undertook a long-term and highly classified counter-intelligence operation against the CPUSA. The FBI convinced Morris Childs to report on Party activities to the FBI. His brother, Jack, agreed to act as an informant as well.Even if, in 1974, the KGB had serious suspicions about Morris Childs, no real action was taken. His brother at that time was in poor health. On 8 May 1974, in Moscow, decision was taken to retire both the Childs brother, as there were concerns about their direct involvement in the financial affairs of the CPUSA, and an increasing danger of FBI surveillance (as seen by the Soviet) because of their long involvement in secret work. But nothing happened.In 1975, Morris and Jack Childs were awarded the Order of the Red Banner. Morris received his in person from Brezhnev during a Moscow banquet.In November 1977, the question of the replacement of the Childs brothers has been again raised at another meeting with Hall in Moscow (Hall was still quite reluctant to replace them). Hall again delayed taking action. The Childs brothers continued their actions. Finally, in May 1980, it is the FBI who took the initiative, concluding that the Childs were in imminent danger of being compromised. On 28 may 1980, as a pretext for withdrawing from the ?special channel?, Morris Childs told Hall that he feared to being arrested. Morris Childs retired in Miami. Jack Childs, in failing health for some time, died in a New York hospital on 12 August 1980.Seen from the FBI, the operation was known as SOLO. For nearly 30 years it provided reliable and highly sensitive information about the CPUSA, its activities within the United States, and its relations with the Soviet Union, to the highest authorities in the U.S. government. During these years, among the intelligence reported by the Childs brothers to the FBI were the efforts of the CPUSA leadership to influence on the black civil rights movement, and penetrate Martin Luther King?s entourage. Seen from the Soviets, there has been a CPUSA penetration of the Democratic Party, with a member (not identified) who managed to provide informations to the Soviets from within the Jimmy Carter camp during the 1976 presidential election. The CPUSA was the voice of American communists speaking in Moscow?s spirit from the heartland of world imperialism.In 1987, at a special ceremony at FBI headquarters, Morris was presented by President Reagan with the Presidential Medal of freedom. Jack was awarded the same medal posthumously.It is interesting to notice that both Brezhnev and Reagan, in person, awarded Morris Childs his awards!!! The two brothers became the only spies ever to be decorated by both the Soviet Union and the United States.About this story, you can also read ?The Sword and the Shield ? The Mitrokhin Archive? ? Christopher Andrew & Vasili Mitrokhin ? 1999 ? p. 287-292.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 About this story, you can also read ?The Sword and the Shield ? The Mitrokhin Archive? ? Christopher Andrew & Vasili Mitrokhin ? 1999 ? p. 287-292.Dear Christiophe,many thanks for your further informations .I have the german-editon of the Mitrokhin-book in my library. So I will look that story after .I personally don't believe, that these two brothers really worked for the stupid FBI-dudes of Mr. Hoover and gave them valueable informations. Gus Hall's party had been always under enormous pressure from the US-Adminstration. So, maybe the Kremlin decided, that the brothers Childs' shall play double agents and delifer some infos to the Hoover-gangsters, to keep Gus Hall's venture in the USA alive.Jack & Morris Childs had been communists - till the passed away, I assume.Best regardsChristian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Christian,Who will ever know? It would be interesting to know if the Childs brothers (or at least Morris) ever have been honoured by the USSR after their US Medal of Honour. That's what I would have done in such a case, supposing they continuously worked for me. Just to make this US decoration with less importance... But, after 1987, a lot of things changed...Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Christian,Who will ever know? It would be interesting to know if the Childs brothers (or at least Morris) ever have been honoured by the USSR after their US Medal of Honour. That's what I would have done in such a case, supposing they continuously worked for me. Just to make this US decoration with less importance... But, after 1987, a lot of things changed...Cheers.Ch.Dear Christophe,no, I don't think so, because the Childs' already received their US Award directly from Regan. So why should they be honored again by some third-rate quasi-politican of the US-lead "Soviet-Puppet-Regime" ? That would have been an act of disgrace, if they would have forced Morris Childs to accept a "Lenin" from the hands of such creatures like Gorbacev or Jakovlev . BTW: Jakovlev worked for decades for the CIA and Gorbacev had been his "zombie" .What is also highly suspicious in the "Childs-double-agent-story", is the fact, that they worked for the FBI and not for the "wise guys" in the CIA.I think, that Yuri Andropov played a very tricky game with the USA in using the Childs brothers.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 NEW QUESTION Gentlemen,here is the new question - now about tanks :1. Which Soviet tank of the GPW had at the beginning of the GPW a much thicker armour, than some years later?2. Why did the constructors do so?3. What was the nickname of this tank given by the German Wehrmacht? (2 German words, which result in a funny name.)Best regards ChristianGentlemen,I did some advertisment for our quiz at the GMIC-section for armour: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14882 , due to the fact, that we have now a question about a certain Soviet tank.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Dear Christophe,no, I don't think so, because the Childs' already received their US Award directly from Regan. So why should they be honored again by some third-rate quasi-politican of the US-lead "Soviet-Puppet-Regime" ? That would have been an act of disgrace, if they would have forced Morris Childs to accept a "Lenin" from the hands of such creatures like Gorbacev or Jakovlev . BTW: Jakovlev worked for decades for the CIA and Gorbacev had been his "zombie" .What is also highly suspicious in the "Childs-double-agent-story", is the fact, that they worked for the FBI and not for the "wise guys" in the CIA.I think, that Yuri Andropov played a very tricky game with the USA in using the Childs brothers.Best regards ChristianChristian,Who will ever know? Maybe one day some "memoirs" will help us...Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 NEW QUESTION Gentlemen,here is the new question - now about tanks :1. Which Soviet tank of the GPW had at the beginning of the GPW a much thicker armour, than some years later?2. Why did the constructors do so?3. What was the nickname of this tank given by the German Wehrmacht? (2 German words, which result in a funny name.)Best regards ChristianGentlemen,no idea, about that (very) famous and (very) important Soviet Tank ?It's easy .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 NEW QUESTION Gentlemen,here is the new question - now about tanks :1. Which Soviet tank of the GPW had at the beginning of the GPW a much thicker armour, than some years later?2. Why did the constructors do so?3. What was the nickname of this tank given by the German Wehrmacht? (2 German words, which result in a funny name.)Best regards ChristianTo part 1. of the question:That famous heavy tank was named after an old Bolshevik, who become in later years head of state of the CCCP.To part 3. of the question:The first word of the German nickname is "Dicker ....." ("Fat ...."). And the second word has something to do with a dog.So, it should not be too hard, to answer the rest of the question .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 No idea on the nickname.But Klementi Voroshilov had a heavy tank named after him, and was an old Bolshevik who rose to become the chairman of the Soviet presidium.The armour on the tank was made lighter because it was thick all around and thus impeded mobility. Most tanks need thick armour on the front where they ought to be getting hit if at all, then thinner on the sides and thinnest on the back. Thus still gaining the balance between armour and mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 No idea on the nickname.But Klementi Voroshilov had a heavy tank named after him, and was an old Bolshevik who rose to become the chairman of the Soviet presidium.The armour on the tank was made lighter because it was thick all around and thus impeded mobility. Most tanks need thick armour on the front where they ought to be getting hit if at all, then thinner on the sides and thinnest on the back. Thus still gaining the balance between armour and mobility.Dear Belaruski,No. 1 of the question is korrect: It is the KV-1 .But No. 2 of the question is far too uspecific . What had been the real causes, why the constructurs gave such a thick armour - and even an applique armour ! - to the KV-1 before GPW started? What did the constructurs (& the army-chiefs) fear so much?No. 3 you might find via GOOGLE or Wikipedia .I hope you will make the race .Best regardsChristian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hi Belaruski,Have you succeeded in finding complete answers to Christian's questions ?The thread doesn't seem very active these days... Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The thread doesn't seem very active these days... I know . . . thanks for nudging us . . . ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ed, I'm sure you have the answers... Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The nickname was "Dicker Bello" , hard to translate, its an expression in itself, but it suggests, that the germans were quite impressed of the size of the KV-1, when they saw them first. All i know about the other part of the question is that the the armour was reduced for a higher speed of the KV-1, thats all...Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Belaruski & Gerd are the winners Dear Belaruski,dear Gerd,both of you answered parts of my question - congratulations .So you have to decide, who will put the new question .O.K., the second part of my question had been to difficult . The Soviet constructors feared the strong German anti-tank guns in spring 1941, due to (wrong!) informations by the NKVD. So they applied to the already strong KV-1 armor so called appliqu? armor. There are two photographs to be seen at the Wiki-link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KV-1 . So, the KV-1 "appliqu?" was invincible to any sort of German guns or tanks, except the famous 8.8-anti-aircraft-gun at short range.But the fact had been in summer 1941, that the Germans did not have approbriate anti-tank guns at all and also the guns of the inferior German tanks had been very uneffictive.So the constructors reduced the armor of the KV-1 and improved the speed and manouverability.The Germans had been deeply impressed by the KV-1 "Dicker Bello" and by the T-34 and copied both tanks. The result:- Tiger I as a KV-1 copy- Panther as a T-34 copyBut the Soviets also improved their magnificent tanks. The result:- IS 2 & IS 3 as improved KV-1 (they had been the strongest main battle tanks in WW II)- T-34 / 85 with the great 85 mm gunAt this thread you will find a great citation of a IS-2 tank commander, who fought in Berlin (Dave purchased the documented group): http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14938Best regards Christian Edited February 21, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Christian,as Belaruski answered the main-question, i would suggest, it is his turn.Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Christian,as Belaruski answered the main-question, i would suggest, it is his turn.GerdDear Gerd,o.k., it is now Belaruski's turn to surprise us with a difficult question .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Belaruski,I'm afraid it is your turn, now... Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Ok then..I'll post a new question in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Excellent... Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 OK then. We have all heard stories about Japanese soldiers on islnds in the pacific fighting the war long after it finished, but..When was the last Soviet soldier killed fighting in his 1941 border position?Names and detail earn extra points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RedThreat Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Red Army units in Brest fortress continued to fight long after they were surrounded. Defenders of the fortress, Major Gavrilov and Deputy Politruk Derevyanko, were taken prisoners on July 23, 1941. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 RedThreat you are in the right place! But Gavrilov was not the last. This may also require you to have read the right book!Any advance on July 41? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RedThreat Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 RedThreat you are in the right place! But Gavrilov was not the last. This may also require you to have read the right book!Any advance on July 41?Some sources name Sr. Lt. Barhanoev Umat-Girey Artaganovich as the last defender.http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=10759Cheers,Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belaruski Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I think it's fair to say that you win this one, although the name may be incorrect, as it is from memorey and the only other account has no name.In April 1942 (10 months after the invasion) a Soviet Jew was ordered out of a work party by a German officer and told to go down into a tunnel dug in the Brest Fortress. The emaciated soldier he found was indeed practically blind from living underground, and barely able to stand. He refused all food and water from the Germans and died shortly after his 'surrender'.Excellent books on the subject include Sergei Smirnov's Heroes of Brest Fortress and Albert Axell's 'Russia's Heroes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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