Soviet Medal on Ebay - Can anyone identify?

[deptfordboy]

Hi All,

This medal is currently up for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Soviet-Russian-Medal...1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't recognise this one - is it a fake? Please put me out of my misery,

Thanks

Gilbert

[Guest Rick Research]

No clue. If it's real, it's a school graduation badge. The 1920s date might be graduation year or when the school was founded. It certainly LOOKS like something made around 1930.

[Ed_Haynes]

Yeah, it does look like a "something", doesn't it?

[Stogieman]

My only question is the numbering..

No. 19

The Russians used "No." as a prefix?

Just curious

[Ed_Haynes]

My only question is the numbering..

No. 19

The Russians used "No." as a prefix?

Just curious

Yes, in early numbered awards. Who knows why, but they did.

[Guest Rick Research]

I correct myself... had a better look at it and from the seller's SECOND scan (the one with the house lights turned ON)

[attachmentid=15113]

what it SAYS is "To the best worker of Preliminary Criminal Investigation" and the initials are for the Russian Republic within the Soviet Union. So it is either civil police detective branch or from the Prosecutorial Staff, but NOT an Order and nothing I recognize.... perhaps in one of the endless "Avers" books?

The design motif is common to civil police and Procurator sections of the Soviet legal system. The construction and style certainly appear to be of that period.

[Stogieman]

Well, I'm curious and it's cute.

[deptfordboy]

Thanks for the info Rick. Someone must have wanted it bad as it went for over ?200! The basic design is not a million miles away from that of the Order of the Red Banner, which is probably why the seller described it as a order. this has aroused my curiosity so I will see if I can find out more when I get a chance via trusty google.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Stogieman]

I have no clue what it was, but on a whim I bid high... figured No. 19 of anything must be special. Somebody else really wanted it though!!

[kimj]

I did not like the look of it! Enamel - too light in color. Screw plate - looks like modern ones. Patina - looks weird, too black. But this could be lighting. But I am no expert in these rare early badges.

Can you make a judgement of a seller by his previous auctions? I think they can at least give a clue of what kind of seller it is. Take a look at his auction: 6573063134 . It's a Red Banner of Labour of Trans-Caucasian SFSR. Statistics: 144 awarded and 9 in museums in former SSSR (source: Orders of Soviet Republics). It's priced at 5000$ in AVERS 6 (!!!). His sold for 820$. It looks nothing like the ones I have photos of. I believe it's a fake. But then again I am no expert in the orders of Soviet Republics.

I don't think you missed much Rick.

/Kim

[Alfred]

I did not like the look of it! Enamel - too light in color. Screw plate - looks like modern ones. Patina - looks weird, too black. But this could be lighting. But I am no expert in these rare early badges.

Can you make a judgement of a seller by his previous auctions? I think they can at least give a clue of what kind of seller it is. Take a look at his auction: 6573063134 . It's a Red Banner of Labour of Trans-Caucasian SFSR. Statistics: 144 awarded and 9 in museums in former SSSR (source: Orders of Soviet Republics). It's priced at 5000$ in AVERS 6 (!!!). His sold for 820$. It looks nothing like the ones I have photos of. I believe it's a fake. But then again I am no expert in the orders of Soviet Republics.

I don't think you missed much Rick.

/Kim

It?s not the first one on ebay. I saw a second a while ago. So make your conclusions.

Andreas

[Stogieman]

Interesting, he lists maybe one very rare badge per week. The one he has up now is gorgeous, but a gorgeous what. The fellow who paid $820 bought the one badge and a rather large number of automobile parts and accessories over the last 3 weeks....

If these are fakes, they are awfully well done.......... The enamel work is wonderful.

[Gerd Becker]

Interesting, he lists maybe one very rare badge per week. The one he has up now is gorgeous, but a gorgeous what. The fellow who paid $820 bought the one badge and a rather large number of automobile parts and accessories over the last 3 weeks....

If these are fakes, they are awfully well done.......... The enamel work is wonderful.

Be very careful with Russian and Soviet badges, Rick. I also don?t know much about them, but i have to agree with Kim about the enamel and the screwplate. Such rare badges i would only buy from a reputable source and never from ebay, except, i was 100% sure. There are aweful lot of fakes of these early badges out there, like it seems.

best,

Gerd

[Stogieman]

Hi Gerd, my interest was purely accidental and whim-like. I have no intention of stepping into this minefield! Not my area!

[Paul R]

When I read my copy of "Comprehesive Guide to Soviet Orders and Medals", the reproduction enamaled awards had one thing in common... The red enamal was lighter than normal. If I were to compare this badge to say an Order of the Red Star or Red Banner, I would say that the enamel on this badge is very light in color. Also, the enamel distribution does not look even to me.

Based upon this, I would pass on the badge.

Just my 2 Rubles

Paul

Edited November 13, 2005 by Paul Reck

[HuliganRS]

The badge is a fake.

Items like these no longer leave Russia and command a healthier premium over there than they do here or anywhere else in Europe. There's enough "new money" there to buy all of this stuff without it going on eBay.

No one in their right mind will put a Republican award on eBay at $9.99 and if it's authentic, you can expect the prices to be over $5,000 easily for one.

There's a new wave of fakers that are using quality engravers and enamelers. No more cast copies from a good faker! Real silver and gold in the same finess so the weight is righ on the money and the quality is up there. It's getting to a point that even long time dealers are being taken by the high quality and near MonDvor quality!

If you search eBay today you will find fantasy medals, fantasy badges, fantasy ID books and high end copies.

You will not find rare stuff like you would years ago.

I don't mean to scare anyone but beware!!!

[Stogieman]

Excellent point Rusty, I was surfing through WW2 last night and noticed one seller had about a dozen different "KGB" award documents, passes, etc. I will confess to being constantly amazed at the quantity and quality of fakes out there........ whether Russian, german or another country. it seems no matter what, there's always someone willing to fake it!

[Gerd Becker]

Rusty,

i agree with you.

Do you have seen one of these copies and can you provide a picture? That would be most helpful. And if possible, pm me the names of the dealers, you are talking about.

Thanks in advance

all the best,

Gerd

[HuliganRS]

Gerd,

I assume you mean the real badge? or you want a pic of the copy?

I'm not sure...

Rusty.

[Gerd Becker]

Rusty,

never mind. I thought, we were talking about orders but you guys talk about badges.

Gerd

[HuliganRS]

No problem.

This still applies to Orders.

Buyer must take alot into consideration to make an educated purchase.

Look at the color and how the enamel is applied.

Make sure the S/N is engraved in the correct style for the serial range.

Patina. Is it real or is it hiding something.

Gold plating. You may be buying a real order but not the class offered. It may be a 3rd class that has been modyfied to look like a 1st or 2nd class. This applies to Order of Labor and regular military Glory.

Is the item put together from several other orders? (OGPW)

Here's an example for you: Order of Red Star - 3 rivet variation on eBay

Here's the breakdown:

The order is authentic. The enamel is original. The S/N is correct.

So what's the problem you may ask...

The problem is the fact that this is the next type which is identical to the expensive and rare 3 rivet one but is converted to look like a 3 rivet RS. A collector must know that in the 28xxx range the RS can be found in either of the types!

So this is still a nice RS that unmolested would have sold for $300 - $400. Now it's a ruined order being offered as a rare 3 rivet variation costing $1,500 +

Rusty.

Edited November 14, 2005 by HuliganRS

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks, Rusty. I have seen the Red-Star on ebay, thats really sad.

Do you know the numberrange for this type (the not riveted) from the mondvor-site?

best,

Gerd

[HuliganRS]

Gerd,

The 3 rivet S/N range is: 24521 ? 28451

Regualr S/N range is: 27946 ? 44754

You can see the overlap that caused this Red Star.

Rusty.

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks again, Rusty. Much appreciated

Gerd

[HuliganRS]

Gerd,

No problem.

Rusty.