Sweet Mystery of Life.....

[notned]

Thanks Stogie!

But i need to know what they look like too....

the ribbon is different is it not?

and the medal...it comes in different metals....steel etc...

Cheers

Paul

[Stogieman]

Hi Paul, yes, I know........ I was hoping another member would pop in with pix.... I don't want to "hog" all the posts! This will get us started.

1870/71 KDM for Combattant on Combattant ribbon

[Stogieman]

Another example, this one custom-mounted with a very "private-purchase/custom" bar

[Stogieman]

Here's an example of the NC medal in steel, on the NC ribbon

[notned]

Thanks Stogie!

I have one of these too.

Now which way is the medal supposed to be facing? as per regulations?

and the two examples you have posted...they both look to be made of different metals..

is this common? or is it another case of 'as the war progressed...the metal was needed for more important things like guns etc...therefore the quality of the metal was compromised)

[Stogieman]

Ha! Another example of (shall we say) "Artistic License"........ Regulation had the "W" to the front, preference often saw it reversed! The same situation arose with the mounting of the 1813 EK2..... regulation dictated the "smooth" face forward.... preference had it reversed... the regulation was so flagrantly ignored an addendum was eventually posted allowing the change!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Aren't those Epson 2400 scans terrific? Why, I think EVERYONE should have an Epson 2400. (Still waiting for commission checks to roll on in )

Remember that despite the obvious non-rational perversity, steel (no combat in their case) Stay At Homes got the COMBATANT ribbon, while steel (noncombatant status but very often IN combat themselves) with noncombatant ribbons were for frontline-non-arms-bearers. The insanity of authorizing battle bars in 1895 for baggage handlers who heard the distant boom of guns because THEY wore sidearms, while a medical corpsman who had been in the thick of hand to hand assaults and got his arm or leg blown off could NOT wear any battle bars on his "steel" medal is disgraceful, even at this remove in time.

I would have given frontline noncombatants the steel medals on combat ribbons OR combat medals on the noncombatant ribbons (and authorized battle bars to EVERYONE present at said battles, obviously) and the stay at homes steel medals on noncombatant ribbons, but nobody asked me at the time.

I have seen at least one group where a frontline medical officer got BOTH the steel/noncombat ribbon AND the combat/combat version medal/ribbon, but don't recall if that was a simple duplication error or some sort of reguation change at some point which tried to make sense out of the fact that people who were very often killed and wounded under enemy fire were bizarrely handed medals that made them look like they had seen even less action than a stay at home.

This strangeness was not really sorted out even in WW1, but HAD begun to change after the Southwest Africa War 1904-06, when some traditional "swords with white-black ribbons" colonial campaigns Orders recipients were finally authorized "black white" ribbons for having been in harm's way.

[Stogieman]

And, if all of this was not confusing enough................. along comes THIS little medal bar, once upon a time. Flouted regs by recipient?? Added after the fact?? We'll just never know for sure.

[Stogieman]

Some guys actually managed to raise "pride" to an artform............... Private/custom case for one little medal..........

[Guest Rick Research]

That is exactly what I would have done!

[attachmentid=15331]

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

In an effort to perpetuate the confusion, I would submit this group. Note that both 1870-1 medals are steel (and don?t forget the little guys!).

[notned]

Confused?? man i am astonished...( and confused too )

Whats BOTH of them doing there? and how could this be??

Come on fess up...

By the way...Nice Bar!

[Guest Rick Research]

Yegods!!! Did this set come identified? As an 1848/49 veteran and no 1897 he must have been dead by then, and yet his family managed to keep BOTH Orders instead of returning them!

[attachmentid=15363]

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your compliments and enthusiasm. I am sorry to say that, as of now, the recipient remains unidentified.

I purchased this group from George Seymour several years ago; and as you may know, George had a wonderful ability, resources and contacts when it came to identifying groups; but this one had him stumped.

Any educated guesses are most welcome. Thank you again.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Bob Hunter]

What is the enamel on the end of your bar, Wildcard?

[Claudio]

Hi Bob,

It's an order of the Grandduchy of Luxembourg: Ordre de la Couronne de Ch?ne, in English order of the Oak Crown.

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited November 11, 2005 by Claudio

[Eric Schena]

Hi all:

I hope y'all don't mind me posting this bar here (one of only two that I have). It has the combattants 1870/71 medal...

[Eric Schena]

...and here's the back. It's nothing too special, but like it anyway since it appears to be pre WW I.

[Stogieman]

Hi Eric, nice example. here's a sample of one of the oddities......... Non-Combattant Medal in steel, issued on the combattant ribbon....... with a Beaumont bar applied as well!

[Gerd Becker]

Rick,

if i am not mistaken, you don?t see the Hessian Medal very often on older trapezoid Medalbars, is that right? Or does this apply only to the Bravery Version?

Gerd

[Stogieman]

Hi Gerd, I'm not sure if the Arbeit medal is correct.. just noticed the back. The Hessian General Decoration would be correct on the ribbon.. hmmmmmmmmm

Edited November 16, 2005 by stogieman

[Eric Schena]

Hi Stogie:

Did the Arbeit version of the Hessian medal have a different ribbon? I seem to recall being told that they shared the same ribbon, but of course, I could have been mistold something.

Cheers,

Eric

[Stogieman]

Hi Eric, I'm not sure and that is entirely possible. I have been wracking my brain since I noticed the labor medal trying to figure out when/where I last saw one!!

[joe campbell]

another 1870 non-combatant...

i think....

possibly....

joe

[joe campbell]

reverse.

joe