Kev in Deva Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 http://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-WWI-GERMAN-SANKE-M...%3A15|294%3A200All pictures taken from the auction page:- http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207822.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207844.jpgTo my eyes the picture with the red background is NOT the same item as the PLM with Blue background Kevin in Deva. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207978.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207994.jpgand the motif on the P.L.M. box looks to be off center. Kevin in Deva. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ribbon Ose looks different to, when compared with the item with red background.Sellers answer to a question:-I don?t own this PLM, I?m selling it for a friend from Holland. He confirms it?s an end 1916 piece, belonged to the German nobility family of Konrad Kalau von Hofe (captain of the infantry, who died in April 1917). This is a jeweller manufacturing (2nd copy) in order of Wagner, silver base and gold plated. We can also visible see the eagles mouths & tail parts are open, replicas are most of the time closed = too much detailed work for the copy manufacturer. My friend hope?s you?re satisfied with the answers.Kevin in Deva. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 agree!eagle's heads are vastly different,even given the parallax.joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 and the one pictured with red background has one comma after the word le Mer,but the one with the blue background has two commas after the word le Mer,, Totally Bogus Man Kevin in Deva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Hello folks:This is WITHOUT a doubt a modern forgery. The enamel work is horrid (notice how the enamel is flat and not properly contoured)! The eagles are not of the proper design (close though). The case is also a modern fantasy!RUN away from this one!I wouldn't want it if someone gave it to me!Caveat emptor!"SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 As I suspected, anyway the pictures are here on record to help others know what to avoid!Just love the bit about:GOOD TO KNOW : Throughout the Order's history the medal has gone through transformations with minor variations in medal construction. These variations are caused by the usage of different metals ranging from gold to bronze alloys, which according to Hammelman would affect the size outcome due to shrinkage during casting and cooling stage along with the fact that each medal was handcrafted by one individual, so the amount metal removed during the polishing process would also vary. This is why it is so important for the avid collector to be well educated about these size differences. It is also important to note that the enamel color could also vary along with the level of detail on the eagles. Even the text and the crown on the front of the medal does vary. So when it comes to the Pour le M?rite medal, there are no absolutes. Of course the seller might nit have any idea and is posting what his "friend" in Holland told him, he does have a 100% Positive feed rating. Still for the price he is looking for its in his interest to do some research.Kevin in Deva. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 http://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-WWI-GERMAN-SANKE-M...%3A15|294%3A200All pictures taken from the auction page:- http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207822.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207844.jpgTo my eyes the picture with the red background is NOT the same item as the PLM with Blue background Kevin in Deva. Hello again:The piece shown on the website with the red background is of much better quality than the piece shown in the other photos (which is the one that I would imagine you would receive if you sent this fellow money!).The piece with the red background looks rather familiar. I know that I have seen this image somewhere before.....? So, the photo is probably pirated.Rather blatant bait and switch tactics.What a load of nonesense regarding the various measurements, metals used, etc. Yes, there were variations, but for this period, there were only three (3), and this in NOT a genuine Wagner-made piece!It is really sad that there is always someone out there ready to purchase such a piece believing it to be genuine!"SPM"Thank you Kev for warning the folks here on this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Someone should ask him which one he is selling? That case is a total copy, I have one just like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 dr. hamelman would have shat himself to be quoted in such a fashion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I asked the question which one is being sold. We'll see if I get a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The response:Dear tke878,yes, the red one is an eye catcher as i'm not such a good photographer (see the blue ones). So i'm selleng the blue one for my friend.- flandern1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferg1 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah, I got the same answer to that question when I asked him, wonder how long it took him to think that one up ??Ferg1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddywhack Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 so basically he uses a pic of another cross and dosnt say it in his sale thread! that cant be right can it? im sure if you said this to ebay they might have words!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferg1 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Wow, nearly $4000 and 10 hours to go, someone is going to be very upset and put of pocket when the awful truth is revealed !!!! Ferg1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) $3,900 for a relatively nice copy? Oh well, keep in mind Gentlemen, that not everyone out there is aware of sources such as this forum. Be charitable. :cheers: Edited January 21, 2009 by Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 in my mind this is simple fraud ! I would rather have a $29.95 copy of PLM ! I thought all original PLMs were marked on top of cross with makers mark and silver or gold marks ! I have a old book around on them i have to dig up! he states its a wearers copy from 1916 ! would there even be such a thing I would think if awarded a PLM I would want to wear awarded piece????My understanding of wearers copies came out in the 20 s or 30s!!! How hard to punch a W in something ???? I would be sick paying that much for a copy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! seems like bait and switch to me ! I can't take a pic so i will steal a pic from some one !!! and sell a bogus PLM !!! has anyone complained to ebay ??? also he states in a reply to a ? he don't have it its his friends overseas ?how is he shipping it Then ???? He can't get more pics but will take your $$$$ :violent: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What was the opinion of the one with the red background? Is it an an original? The Blue one looks like one of those Spanish copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tezer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 As I pointed out on another forum, the one with the red background was lifted from a Butterfields auction back in 2002, and unfortunately that one was also a fake (a humiliation that I'm still trying to live down, because I thought it was authentic at the time). I reported this listing to Ebay, but as expected they have done nothing, and do not seem to have an issue with the lead photo not being the same item as depicted in the other photos.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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