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http://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-WWI-GERMAN-SANKE-M...%3A15|294%3A200

All pictures taken from the auction page:-

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207822.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207844.jpg

To my eyes the picture with the red background is NOT the same item as the PLM with Blue background :speechless:

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

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Ribbon Ose looks different to, when compared with the item with red background.

Sellers answer to a question:-

I don?t own this PLM, I?m selling it for a friend from Holland. He confirms it?s an end 1916 piece, belonged to the German nobility family of Konrad Kalau von Hofe (captain of the infantry, who died in April 1917). This is a jeweller manufacturing (2nd copy) in order of Wagner, silver base and gold plated. We can also visible see the eagles mouths & tail parts are open, replicas are most of the time closed = too much detailed work for the copy manufacturer. My friend hope?s you?re satisfied with the answers.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

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Hello folks:

This is WITHOUT a doubt a modern forgery. The enamel work is horrid (notice how the enamel is flat and not properly contoured)! The eagles are not of the proper design (close though). The case is also a modern fantasy!

RUN away from this one!

I wouldn't want it if someone gave it to me!

Caveat emptor!

"SPM"

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As I suspected, anyway the pictures are here on record to help others know what to avoid!

Just love the bit about:

GOOD TO KNOW : Throughout the Order's history the medal has gone through transformations with minor variations in medal construction. These variations are caused by the usage of different metals ranging from gold to bronze alloys, which according to Hammelman would affect the size outcome due to shrinkage during casting and cooling stage along with the fact that each medal was handcrafted by one individual, so the amount metal removed during the polishing process would also vary. This is why it is so important for the avid collector to be well educated about these size differences. It is also important to note that the enamel color could also vary along with the level of detail on the eagles. Even the text and the crown on the front of the medal does vary. So when it comes to the Pour le M?rite medal, there are no absolutes.

Of course the seller might nit have any idea and is posting what his "friend" in Holland told him, he does have a 100% Positive feed rating. Still for the price he is looking for its in his interest to do some research.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

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http://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-WWI-GERMAN-SANKE-M...%3A15|294%3A200

All pictures taken from the auction page:-

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207822.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2009/post-950-1232207844.jpg

To my eyes the picture with the red background is NOT the same item as the PLM with Blue background :speechless:

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Hello again:

The piece shown on the website with the red background is of much better quality than the piece shown in the other photos (which is the one that I would imagine you would receive if you sent this fellow money!).

The piece with the red background looks rather familiar. I know that I have seen this image somewhere before.....? So, the photo is probably pirated.

Rather blatant bait and switch tactics.

What a load of nonesense regarding the various measurements, metals used, etc. Yes, there were variations, but for this period, there were only three (3), and this in NOT a genuine Wagner-made piece!

It is really sad that there is always someone out there ready to purchase such a piece believing it to be genuine!

"SPM"

Thank you Kev for warning the folks here on this forum!

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in my mind this is simple fraud ! I would rather have a $29.95 copy of PLM ! I thought all original PLMs

were marked on top of cross with makers mark and silver or gold marks ! I have a old book around on them i have to dig up! he states its a wearers copy from 1916 ! would there even be such a thing I would think if awarded a PLM I would want to wear awarded piece????

My understanding of wearers copies came out in the 20 s or 30s!!! How hard to punch a W in something ???? I would be sick paying that much for a copy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :speechless::speechless1:

seems like bait and switch to me ! I can't take a pic so i will steal a pic from some one !!! and sell a bogus PLM !!! has anyone complained to ebay ??? also he states in a reply to a ? he don't have it its his friends overseas ?

how is he shipping it Then ???? He can't get more pics but will take your $$$$

:violent:

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As I pointed out on another forum, the one with the red background was lifted from a Butterfields auction back in 2002, and unfortunately that one was also a fake (a humiliation that I'm still trying to live down, because I thought it was authentic at the time). I reported this listing to Ebay, but as expected they have done nothing, and do not seem to have an issue with the lead photo not being the same item as depicted in the other photos.

Tim

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