Huge old style ribbon bar, ~1915 (solved: Johannes Lincke, Berlin police captain)

[saschaw]

One of the biggest and one of the latest bars in this style I have ever seen: a pre 1915 "old style" ribbon bar with several WWI awards, so presumably from 1914/1915. Daniel Krause couldn't come up with a name by now so he assumed it may be a reserve officer with LW2, or it is a general's bar with some "Kleindekorationen". Much foreign ribbons to the end so I'm not absolutely sure what exactly the awards are. That's how far I came by now:

 

- Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Anhalt Friedrichkreuz;

- Bayern, Militär-Verdienstorden IV. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Preußen, Kronenorden IV. Klasse;

- Preußen, Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung I. oder II. Klasse;

- Preußen, Erinnerungsmedaille 1897;

- Anhalt, Hausorden Albrecht des Bären, Ritterdekoration I. oder II. Klasse;

- Baden, Orden vom Zähringer Löwen, Ritterkreuz I. oder II. Klasse;

- Mecklenburg-

- Mecklenburg-

- Persien, Sonnen- und Löwenorden IV. Klasse(?);

- Japan, Orden der Aufgehenden Sonne VI. Klasse(?);

- Italien, Orden der Krone Italiens, Ritterkreuz.

 

The order of the two Mecklenburg ribbon suggests a Griffin order and a jubilee medal - or might it be possible someone placed a Schwerin griffin order ahead to a Strelitz Wendish crown?! The bar looks very much alphabetically, and that indeed would be! Additionally, all is sorted to five topics: Prussian war awards (just the EK), Prussian peace time awards, foreign war awards, foreign (but German) pre war awards and then, last but not least, the foreign pre war stuf. Ahead of that foreign war awards would have had their place, if he had something like a Austrian MVK3KD.

 

The plain blue ribbon, from it's position may be a peace time Prussian crown order - or a Württemberg FriedrichX! Both possible, depending on where what "section" ends. I'm totally lost, any help appreciated.

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by saschaw

[sambolini]

Hi,

Beautiful ribbon bar, I really like these old style trapezoidal bars.

Regards,

Sam

[Guest Rick Research]

Hard to imagine how that could be WORN!!!

I suspect there are some "tricks" there-- NOT a Mecklenburg WW1 ribbon after the Griffin, but a Wend Crown... and so on.

I turn up nothing, but this is all mostly pre-war stuff.

Some sort of Adjutant?

[Daniel Cole]

Why couldn't the EK ribbon be an 1870, not a 1914? Is it the lack of the 1870 Combat medal?

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes. Also the M1913 (WW1) Bavarian Military Merit Order frontline awards ribbon.

I've been off wandering through Anhalt/Baden/Mecklenburg regiments looking for a transient passing through all three and no luck. The sheer volume of awards would make me think some door opening cigarette lighter in the Gurads, but that Crown/Long Service is really really odd.

Alas, the Gnomes have been working on 1914-18 award rolls. This is the sort of thing that needs somebody with all the time in the world to eneter PRE-WAR award combinations... year by year by year by year.

USUALLY it is "easier" since the combination itself gives some sort of clues as to what and where the wearer was. This one... nnnnnnnnuuunnnnnnhhhhhhhgggg.

[Wild Card]

Hello saschaw,

Your bar is certainly most impressive, to say the least.

As you may know, reading ribbon bars is not one of my strengths, so please bear with me on a couple of points. Going with what I understand to be general rules -

The one thing that jumps out at me is the fourth ribbon which you Identify as being Preu?en, Kronenorden IV. Klasse. Because of it?s location and color, I second your suggestion that it might more likely be a W?rttemberg Friedrich Order with swords.

Also, might the second ribbon not be an Anhalt Albert the Bear knight with swords?

On a bar of this magnitude, if the Iron Cross is an 1870, I would expect oaks on the ribbon; but then that would open the door for swords on the suggested Albert the Bear and Friedrich orders ribbons, so... Therefore, I am thinking a 1914 Iron Cross; no oaks device = no sword devices.

Just some alternative thoughts. Thank you for sharing this magnificent bar with us.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

Hmm. Hmm. That does indeed make sense--

war awards

then Prussian awards

then peacetime Other Germans

then Foreigns.

NO devices whatsoever are further clouding the issue here.

I was up very late/early trying to hunt this guy down in 1914 with no luck.

[Deruelle]

Very nice bar It will be very interresting if we can find photo of the officer who wore this bar.

Nice

Christophe

[saschaw]

Thanks for all the responses...

 

 

Rick Research said:

Hmm. Hmm. That does indeed make sense--

war awards

then Prussian awards

then peacetime Other Germans

then Foreigns.

Yes, and that all as said very alphabetically. He just missed to write his name on the back...

 

 

Wild Card said:

Also, might the second ribbon not be an Anhalt Albert the Bear knight with swords?

That one would be worn on the same ribbon as the peace time decoration, or am I wrong?

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by saschaw

[saschaw]

Something new on this? I'm having now a 1913 rank list and think I'll go all threw it, until I find him. He actually should be there, should he not?

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by saschaw

[saschaw]

saschaw said:

He actually should be there, should he not?

He is, and I found him. Could you please tell me I'm good?

 

 

My "foreign guess" was worse than I expected. It is not Persia/Japan/Italy but Sweden/Spain/Italy, with a Mecklenburg Griffin. The Mecklenburg "Wend" ribbon seems to be for a medal, but for which?

 

Hauptmann d.R. Lincke, MG-Abteilung 7. Working with a 1913 rank list I'm unaware about his WWI awards. In 1913 no Crown order, so did he get it finally in 1913/14 or is that a Württemberg Friedrichs order? If so, what class? The Bavarian is what class? Maybe 3rd class to "foreign" Hauptmann or Major?! Thanks in advance for the last pieces of the puzzle.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

Very good.

In 1914 he'd transferred to J?ger Bn 3-- KO4, LD1, can't explain that 1897 yet, AB3b, BZ3b, MG3, must be a wartime MMV2 (NOT MStMV2), SW3b, SJ3 (on very definitely Prussian Red Eagle Order ribbon not the correct Spanish golden yellow stripes), JK5.

Need to find his first name and day job now. He lived in Berlin which is convenient with the online street directories.

UNFORTUNATELY I could not find him in the 1913 Prussian or 1918 Reichs civil service rank lists-- rather surprising given that he got ALL of these awards after 1907 while a reserve officer! He may have been a regular in 1897 but there are too many Linckes with no awards then to "find" him.

He survived the war.

Activities 1907-14 remain an utter mystery.

Out of several DOZEN potential Berlin Linckes in 1914, the most likely suspects (None, of course, list any military rank ) are Kgl. Polizeileutnant Hans and

my personal favorite

Ernst-- Court Supplier (Hoflieferant) to Mecklenburg-Schwerin of

ivory, turtle, and amber wares (Elfenbein, Schildkr?te u Bernsteinwaren).

Turtle wares. Ayuh, them could pile up the bling. :rolleyes:

[seeheld]

According to my Mecklenburg rolls is match with mister Lincke.

My personal idea is that the man got the remember medal Friedrich Franz III. (Schwerin, 1897) and the remember medal Adolf Friedrich (Strelitz, 1914). In this case it's correct to see the "griffin order" ribbon in front of the "wendian crown" ribbon.

See example...

Best regards

Seeheld

[HeikoGrusdat]

nice bar, interesting combination - do you know who the owner was?

[Guest Rick Research]

Is his FIRST name listed on the Griffin Roll? That is the only way we will be able to identify WHICH Berlin Lincke he was.

[seeheld]

Yes the first name is listed.

I found two Lincke witch are decorated with the Griffin Order Knight Cross.

Lincke, Dr. phil, Kurt Alexander - born 09.03.1864 - Dresden, Oberlehrer an der Dreik?nigsschule, MG3 08.03.1902

Lincke, Erdmann Johannes - born 22.05.1868 - Berlin, K?niglich Preu?ischer Polizeileutnant, MG3 09.04.1910

Sorry for my mistake. I was looking for the combination Griffin order and order of the wendian crown.

Possible is also, Griffin order and remember medal from Strelitz (1914).

Best regards

Seeheld

[seeheld]

As Police officer it's possible to get so much different orders and medals from so much different countries.

It's only nesseccary to be at the right time at the right place.... :rolleyes:

Regards Seeheld

[seeheld]

Just now I found a remark that Johannes Lincke Preu?ischer Polizeileutnant in Berlin received at 22. July 1914 the remember Medal Adolf Friedrich V von Mecklenburg-Strelitz!!! :jumping:

Best regards

Seeheld

[Guest Rick Research]

There--perfect fit!

I was hoping for Turtle Wares Man... but the city (despite the "Royal" in the title, NOT in the Prussian civil service lists) police officer-- who was back there as a Polizei Hauptmann in 1920-- will now be possible to track in the city directories.

1914, Seite 1875:

Not listed in 1918 (away on war service so...?)

1920 Seite 1657:

Not listed 1921 or 1922 so it looks like he may have gone in the purge of the old Blue Police-- even though he was NOT one of the November 1918 runaways. Or he may simply have taken his pension and left the Republic to fend for itself-- but moved away from Berlin or died.

[saschaw]

Wow. Frank, Rick - absolutely great work, I thank you both very much.

 

 

Is that Griffin list a combined one or can you determine if he got it from Schwerin or Strelitz?! With the Strelitz medal Strelitz sound more likely, but who knows...

 

One last question: did Lincke yet appear on the BMV foreigners list?

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by saschaw

[seeheld]

He received his Griffin Order from Mecklenburg-Schwerin. In this case of arwarding was M.-Strelitz not involved.

Best regards

Seeheld

[saschaw]

Odd.

 

Thanks again for that fast clearification.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by saschaw