EK 1939 Knights Cross im thinking of buying

[TheKnight]

Here is another knights cross that i have come on for sale but again i am not sure whether it is original or not. Any help you can give would be much apreciated

[TheKnight]

Here is another knights cross that i have come on for sale but again i am not sure whether it is original or not. Any help you can give would be much apreciated

[TheKnight]

Anoter image

[TheKnight]

Anoter image

[Alex K]

Welcome, unfortunately IMHO a complete fake, suspension ring and loop totally wrong, perhaps better pictures but I don't hold out much hope

regards

Alex K

Edited May 28, 2009 by Alex K

[Danny70]

Hello TheKnight,

That is just a second class iron cross with a twisted jump ring and flattened suspension ring. It is made to look rather like an RK by this process and there may have even been field-made RK replacements that used this method, but as far as I can see, without proof, this is just a damaged EK2 and not worth any more than that.

There are many very good fakes and many very bad fakes of RK's out there, so if you are planning on buying a genuine RK, it would be very advisable to do a whole lot of research on them first. Be prepared and know what to look for, and for the genuine article, expect to pay anywhere from about 6,000 euro upwards.

Regards - Danny

[Bill Garvy]

Sadly, a Berg & Nolte was butchered in the process. . .

[TheKnight]

Sadly, a Berg & Nolte was butchered in the process. . .

Thanks guys,

Wont be buying that one then. glad i asked ye first.

Ill keep searching

[Von Krauthausen]

Amazed no one here even mentions it might very well be 'a kind of' the real thing after all .

The way that eye on the ek2 is bent is very specificallly done ..

Its not the first EK2 Ive seen bent like that ,the others were all eastern frontmade temporary RK substitutions , the real thing !!

(Or someone has bent it exactly alike wich is offcourse always a possibilility , but nowadays people arent that eager to ruin a perfectly good ek2 anymore for a RK most collectors havent even heard of ..)

Knowing its a 'real' ek2 and looking at the ribbon wich looks very nice too I think you missed out

on a real little gem due to very ignorant advices .

If it wasnt too expensive would have scored it for shure :-)

Edited October 1, 2009 by Von Krauthausen

[censlenov]

I wouldn't have shelled out anywhere near the price of an RK for that. We did touch on the fact it could be a field mod but without definative proof its just a tampered with EK2. It would be like buying an orginal British medal renamed in a contemporary fashion how can you prove that the medal was indeed worn by the man on the edge you simply can't.

I think it was sound advice given.

Chris

[Kev in Deva]

Amazed no one here even mentions it might very well be 'a kind of' the real thing after all .

The way that eye on the ek2 is bent is very specificallly done ..

Its not the first EK2 Ive seen bent like that ,the others were all eastern frontmade temporary RK substitutions , the real thing !!

(Or someone has bent it exactly alike wich is offcourse always a possibilility , but nowadays people arent that eager to ruin a perfectly good ek2 anymore for a RK most collectors havent even heard of ..)

Knowing its a 'real' ek2 and looking at the ribbon wich looks very nice too I think you missed out

on a real little gem due to very ignorant advices .

If it wasnt too expensive would have scored it for shure :-)

Being a relative new member on here,'Von Krauthausen'

you would do a lot better than refer to members posts as "ignorant".

Many members here are stating their honest opinions about the piece in question, if, you have any pictures, data of other pieces, that are similar in style, then do please feel free to add them to the discussion, as the Forums primary purpose is the sharing of information, without which our hobby would be severely curtailed.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

Edited October 1, 2009 by Kev in Deva

[PKeating]

Von Krauthausen makes points that are just as valid as those made by the knowledgeable members who have commented here. He clearly knows something about Iron Crosses. We should welcome a new member who could, if his first post is any indication, prove to be amongst the 5% - 10% of active members here who do have useful knowledge and are prepared to share it. He is obviously not a native English speaker, otherwise he might have expressed his point about ignorant contributions in gentler language. It is irritating to see threads where someone asks about something in good faith and is informed, wrongly, that the object is a fake. The chap might have been about to buy it for a reasonable price and might have lost the chance as a result. If nothing else, it is a genuine EK2, as Bill Garvy points out. It might be a genuine RK conversion from the period. It certainly conforms to one way in which EK2 were converted. But without provenance, we cannot be sure. Perhaps "The Knight" could tell us how much the vendor was asking for this medal.

PK

[Gordon Williamson]

I am fortunate enough to own an authentic "field converted" EK2 to RK, with provenance, which belonged to one of Germany's top U-Boat Aces. The "conversion" is as crudely done as the example shown here, (which might well be a genuine period alteration) by twisting the eye around by 90 degrees .

Of course with these, provenance is everything, but there is nothing fake about the one in this thread - its a genuine EK2 and possibly a genuine period alteration, so could well have been worth buying depending on the price being asked and if any background to it was known.

[Eric Stahlhut]

you would do a lot better than refer to members posts as "ignorant".

Kevin in Deva.

perhaps it would be prudent to look up the definition of the word and not be so eager to castigate newcomers to our forum. especially those whose first language isn't english.

[Danny70]

TheKnights initial post states:

"Here is another knights cross that i have come on for sale but again i am not sure whether it is original or not. Any help you can give would be much appreciated..."

My response stated that it was an EK2 with a twisted ring, I also stated that it could be a field converted EK2 to RK.

But the question asked was if this was an original RK.... the answer - no it's not.

Yes, it could indeed be an period conversion, but without provenance, who can tell.

TheKnight had previously posted a couple of other (fake) RK's asking if they were original, so I assumed that what he has been looking for is a genuine 'standard' RK. I am sorry if my response was not more informative.

(Or someone has bent it exactly alike wich is offcourse always a possibilility , but nowadays people arent that eager to ruin a perfectly good ek2 anymore for a RK most collectors havent even heard of ..)

Call me cynical, but I'm sure there are plenty of unscrupulous characters out there who would have no qualms whatsoever about damaging an EK2 if the end result increased the value threefold. There are a lot of EK collectors out there who would be willing to take a chance in the hope that it was a period conversion.

Regards - Danny

[Kev in Deva]

perhaps it would be prudent to look up the definition of the word and not be so eager to castigate newcomers to our forum. especially those whose first language isn't english.

Perhaps those attempting to use the English words in their posts,

would do well to look up there meaning before using them.

I on the other hand, know what it means, especially when used in the context of:

"ignorant advices."

Kevin in Deva. :D

Edited October 2, 2009 by Kev in Deva

[Guest Rick Research]

Your response was quite clear, Danny.

A ruined EK2 with zero documentation (REAL documentation) is... worthless. :beer:

[TheKnight]

Sorry about my delay in replying to your views i had difficulty logging in.

I appreciate all the comments ye have made even if some were quite aggressive(joke). As a group ye all seem no have a great knowledge of the award. The price of that medal at the time i think was about 400 euro.

If i thought it was genuinely worn in place of an rk holder i would have bought it.

However there probably would have been no proof of this. Just wondering if you can tell form the picture if the ribbon is a modified EK2 ribbon or is it Genuine RK ribbon or neither.

Thanks for all your comments.

[Stojan]

This topic hasn't had a lot of activy for a while.  Let's try to start a new discussion: I found this EK2 conversion into a RK. But after I read all the previous information, before buying it I'd like to know your opinions about it. This example is ceirtanly a better produced example, the loop was carefully changed to seem like a RK loop. 

Any help will be appreciate. Thanks.

[Alex K]

Ive just posted an answer in your ither thread about the same piece