Lippe Fieldbar

[Claudius]

Here is a little Lippe fieldbar. I haven't tried repositioning the ribbons yet. I have recently learned that the crossed swords on (what appears to be) the Lippe House Order ribbon is in fact the Lippe Military Merit Medal (wS). The ribbons look very similar. That would also explain its position behind the Lippe War Cross, otherwise a LHO4wS would certainly outrank a Lippe MMM. I understand the LHO on a fieldbar would have a wreath device(?). I have not seen one. Does anyone have an example to show...

I think it?s a good bar, but I have not put a black light to the threads on the back. Does anyone think I need to?

Rick Research: It goes without saying, you can add this bar, and the devices to you growing data base of devices.

[Claudius]

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[saschaw]

From what I understand this ribbon with swords is actually for the house order (never seen a wreath in Lippe), but that misplaced it may well be for the military merit medal, using a non matching ribbon. The right ribbon for the medal had yellow, not gold sides.

[Deruelle]

Hi Claudius

Here are two ribbon bar from Lippe with ribbon for House order.

Christophe

[Deruelle]

Sascha has right, the wreath on Lippe ribbon for House order does'nt exist. Solomon can confirm that. Probably on other ribbon if the wreath exist on the medal.

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

Definitely the Honor Cross (House Order). Problem is that the wearer (or his blind great-grandmother) obviously sort-of put this together, so the home-made nature of it means we can't be SURE something hasn't been monkeyed with. The House Order ribbon was obviously squeeeeeeezed in there, in a spot behind where it should have been.

The swords are the pre-Third Reich type, as is the metal backing plate. The catch may have been repaired-- looks like this was worn in the 1920s.

If it was nice and neat and tidy I'd be happier about making an identification of the owner when we eventually (hope springs eternal) had the OK Rolls to work with.

[Solomon]

The ribbon with swords on it belongs to the Lippe-Detmold house-order, there is no doubt.

And, as mentioned, it is placed wrong behind the merit cross. Following the statues of the house-order, it had to be placed before all other Lippe-awards.

A identification isn?t easy, because all other awards are standard...

Best regards

Solomon

[Ulsterman]

The ribbon with swords on it belongs to the Lippe-Detmold house-order, there is no doubt.

And, as mentioned, it is placed wrong behind the merit cross. Following the statues of the house-order, it had to be placed before all other Lippe-awards.

A identification isn?t easy, because all other awards are standard...

Best regards

Solomon

Is there any chance it was a peacetime award?

[Deruelle]

NO, because the swords are presents here. The ribbon is the same for peacetime but during the war swords can be added for miliatry merit.

Christophe

[Solomon]

Is there any chance it was a peacetime award?

No, the swords were awarded only for war-merits.

Best regards

Solomon

[Claudius]

Gentlemen;

Thank you all for your comments. I second guessed myself when I called the LHO ribbon the LMMMwS. I just couldn't understand how someone could make the mistake and put a house order (w/sword device) in third position behind the LC. Rick's blind great-grandmother is a good reason, but I'm speculating that as a post-WWI field bar, the "royal Lippe family" award was kicked down the pecking order in favor of the State of Lippe award. Kind of showing more allegiance to his STATE, than to his ruling family. Just a guess...

Nonetheless, I really like the bar.

(And let me rephrase what I said earlier...when I wrote "reposition" I didn't mean I was going to "re-order" the ribbons. I only meant that I was going to nudge them together so that the ribbons touch and hide the bar beneath.)

I understand that the other medals are not uncommon enough to make an easy ID, but with the LHO list nearly ready for publishing, can the gnomes put together a top "hopefuls", list?

Rick mentioned the OK rolls. Are the OK in existence that could even be compiled?

[Solomon]

Gentlemen;

I understand that the other medals are not uncommon enough to make an easy ID, but with the LHO list nearly ready for publishing, can the gnomes put together a top "hopefuls", list?

It is not easy, really! I?m wondering, that there is no long-service medal on that ribbon bar.

The former owner was from Lippe-Detmold and was an active fighter during the WW1. (Otherwise at least the LC-ribbon should have been the white NC-ribbon).

According to these facts, it must be the House-Order 4th class with swords Div. A.

And he was surely a younger guy.

There are several entries in the rolls, for which it isn?t clear, if these persons really got the award with swords.

Best regards

Solomon

[Guest Rick Research]

An identification isn't possible here because the OTHER awards don't have Rolls available. If there was an officer in the Reichsheer or Reichsmarine who matched, we'd know him from those Rank Lists, but there isn't such a match.

From the point of view of Rolls, what there is here is only the ONE award (Lippe Honor Cross X). The rest is "invisible."

And because this is a hand made bar, with THAT ribbon (notice the black threads-- the ribbon was removed from something else and then put on this bar) in the wrong place and added to oither ribbons, though I'd say it is a wearer-altered bar from the 1920s... we can't be SURE.