3rd Reich Forestry man with ribbon bar

[Robert Noss]

The best photo from todays fleamarket

Dated 1941

Nice clear shot.

Kind regards

Robert

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Bavarian Military Merit CRoss X, then an Austro-Hungarian KARL TROOP CROSS before his Hindenburg CRoss....!!!! Weird WW1 career as an enlistede man on loan to the Hapsburgs!!!

But WAS he in forestry? FRom the tabs and stringy shoulder cords, I think some sort of Sonderf?hrer.

But that CLOSED COLLAR tunic! It is not the M1943 that could be worn open or closed-- it looks like a fire/police one-- 8 buttons on front.

Will send for Weird Luftwaffe reinforcements! :cheers:

[Naxos]

Feuerschutz Luftgaukommando

like Unterbrandmeister?

Edited May 31, 2009 by Naxos

[nesredep]

Hello!

Interesting Photo,new for me.

All the best

Nesredep

[Ulsterman]

...but an HK WITHOUT an X, but he has a Karl Truppen kreuz?

Did it fall off?

what are the last three: Luitpold jubilee, Tyrol and Bav. LS?

[Guest Rick Research]

I'd say its the "Christmas 1918" royalist medal on the jubilee medal ribbon, then, ayuh--Tyrol, and finally Bulgarian WW1 Commemorative. No swords on Hindenburg, indeed.

A very strange career. :cheers:

[Robert Noss]

You are probably right and he is not Forestry.

This small group of photos of another man with same insignia but different tunic was in my "forestry box" so it misleaded me.

...........

[Robert Noss]

............

So what are they ?

Maybe just "normal" Luftwaffe officials in the administration ?

Kind regards

Robert

[Ulsterman]

Wasn't there an obscure Luftwaffe Forestry dept at some point? No, not kidding...it rings a bell from the distant past.

I still think the last ribbon is a Bav. LS.

[Guest Rick Research]

VERY interesting-- Fliegerbluse... "flying firemen?" :rolleyes:

[Gordon Craig]

Wasn't there an obscure Luftwaffe Forestry dept at some point? No, not kidding...it rings a bell from the distant past.

I still think the last ribbon is a Bav. LS.

Ulsterman,

You are correct. The Luftwaffe had their own Forestry Sections. They wore Luftwaffe uniforms with Forestry ranks. They were responible for forestry management on Luftwaffe facilities. Herman also has a small separate forestry section at his residence, hunting lodge etc. They wore Luftwaffe uniforms as well but were not really part of the Luftwaffe Forestry Service. FYI-There was also a Heer Forestry Service. Their task was to look after forestry management on Heer property.

Here is a photo of Herman's private forestry group blowing their forestry horns.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited June 3, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

The best photo from todays fleamarket

Dated 1941

Nice clear shot.

Kind regards

Robert

I would say that this appears to be a Wartime official in the rank of Oberfeldwebel. My reference for this is the photo below from page 48 of John R. Angolia & Adolf Schicht's book "Uniforms and Traditions of the Luftwaffe" Volume 2.

Regards,

Gordon

[Paul R]

Feuerschutz Luftgaukommando

like Unterbrandmeister?

That is my thought, for the first photo. In 1944, members of the Luftwaffe Fire Dept(uniformed civilians) were allowed to become legitimate officials. This is the first such uniform I have ever seen! These men did not fly, but they were attached to Luftwaffe facilities.

Notice that the uniform is the basic uniform for the LW FD(except for the visor, which was altered by the placement of regular LW cocade and eagle), with the old collar tabs and shoulder straps removed and the Sonderfuhrer types placed.

[Paul R]

This is a LW Sonderfuhrer Level G(same as Feldwebel)., Medium Level

[Paul R]

Luftwaffe Administration Official, Medium Level, Oberfeldwebel equivalent. The exact speciality and rank terminology is unknown because the nebenfarbe(color of the center layer of the shoulder board) is unknown.

[Harrier]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2009/post-2778-1244173656.jpgGreat photos here and thanks for sharing them! There are many strange Luftwaffe related uniforms. Here is a Luftwaffe cufftitle I have had for years and which I have always felt was related to the quasi-military security services used by the Luftwaffe for some airbase security work. I believe a photo exists in one of the reference books of one of these fellows in a uniform very similar to the one in the photo which started this post. He wears a cap like the fire service cap, but with a Luftwaffe style wreath without wings.

[Naxos]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2009/post-2778-1244173656.jpgGreat photos here and thanks for sharing them! There are many strange Luftwaffe related uniforms. Here is a Luftwaffe cufftitle I have had for years and which I have always felt was related to the quasi-military security services used by the Luftwaffe for some airbase security work. I believe a photo exists in one of the reference books of one of these fellows in a uniform very similar to the one in the photo which started this post. He wears a cap like the fire service cap, but with a Luftwaffe style wreath without wings.

Wachinstitut is contracted private security

[Paul R]

Wachinstitut is contracted private security

Now that is cool!!! I have never heard of this firm. Do you have any information on this organization?

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Interesting photos of a very confusing subject.

Paul,

On the last two fotos you posted you say they are both medium level (career) officials. There is considerable difference between the piping on the collar tabs and on the tunics in these two pictures. Does that relate to different time periods or to different functions for the officials? Great photos by the way.

Regards,

Gordon

[leigh kitchen]

Wasn't there an obscure Luftwaffe Forestry dept at some point? No, not kidding...it rings a bell from the distant past......

[Harrier]

Wachinstitut is contracted private security

Thank, Naxos! In this case, I believe, the Luftwaffe version of "rent-a-cop"!

[Gordon Craig]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2009/post-2778-1244173656.jpgGreat photos here and thanks for sharing them! There are many strange Luftwaffe related uniforms. Here is a Luftwaffe cufftitle I have had for years and which I have always felt was related to the quasi-military security services used by the Luftwaffe for some airbase security work. I believe a photo exists in one of the reference books of one of these fellows in a uniform very similar to the one in the photo which started this post. He wears a cap like the fire service cap, but with a Luftwaffe style wreath without wings.

Harrier,

I've gone through my Luftwaffe reference books and didn't find any pictures of this cuff band in wear or any mention of it. That only proves that I didn't find it though. The only thing I did find was an armband for "Doormen and Guards of other Commands" which reads 'Luftfahrtverwaltung". This was actually an armband rather than a cuffband. It was worn with a grey uniform at the RLM and other Headquarter establishments.

Regards,

Gordon

[Harrier]

I will try to find the photo I mentioned, which unfortunately does not show the title, but refers to the individual as a type of security guard.

This title is constructed exactly like a Luftwaffe unit cufftitle, with the same lettering, embroidery style, cloth and thread.

[Naxos]

It is not Luftwaffe. Therefore Gordon couldn't find it.

A non-scientific institute, called Gewerbliches Institut*, implies a civilian service provider.

Wach = Guard / Security

Institut = service provider

My theory: It must be some transitional occurrence were private security personnel adopted by the Luftwaffe retained their civilian Armband for a while.

* Gewerbliche Institute

Auch viele privatwirtschaftliche Unternehmen f?hren die Bezeichnung Institut. Vorwiegend handelt es sich um Dienstleistungsanbieter, deren Kunden besonderen Wert auf Seriosit?t legen.

Have a look at the link below: The sender of the 1934 postcard is a Wach-Institut owned by Willy Sch?nhoff in L?bau, Saxony. They offer Sicherheitsdienste (private security services) and Heimschutz (home invasion protection).

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Lobau-Postkarte-Wach-In...emZ370186718435

Edited June 5, 2009 by Naxos

[Harrier]

This is very good information and makes a lot of sense!