Non Combattant EK2 medal or ribbon with 1939 clasp

[Paul R]

I am wondering if anyone out there has a 1914 Noncombattant EK2 ribbon or medal bar that has a 1939 clasp to post. After thinking about the topic, I realize I have never seen this combination. Is this a possiblity?

Regards

Paul

Edited December 1, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Hendrik]

I am wondering if anyone out there has a 1914 Noncombattant EK2 ribbon or medal bar that has a 1939 clasp to post. After thinking about the topic, I realize I have never seen this combination. Is this a possible combination?

Do correct me if I'm wrong :

I have my doubts on that as the clasp was seen as a repeat award in WW2 of the WW1 award of the same class. In my view, it would mean there would have to have been a non-combattant version of the WW2 EK to which the clasp could be related in case of an award to a WW1 recipient. Am I making any sense ?

[Guest Rick Research]

Legend says so.

Up front let me say that I have seen numerous undocumented examples.

Anybody can stick a Spange in a loose piece of ribbon. Call me Saint Thomas, but to BELIEVE, I need to see

1) an award document

2) a period photograph

Otherwise it is exactly the same situation where a loose 1914 EK2 can have a length of "white-black" noncombatant ribbon threaded through its ring-- but for me, to BE 1 of 13,000 rather than 1 of 5,000,000 it has to be in a mounted medal bar group.

And no, before somebody ruins a rare "white-black" medal or ribbon bar by jamming a Spange into it, THAT is not "proof" either. That would just be stupid. That happens all the time with "black-white" EK medal bars, "improved" by "collectors" (and I use the term loosely) who jam Spangen onto those too.

There simply was no "Reichs" equivalent of the WW2 KVKs in WW1, but with the split of EK/KVK in 1939, the situation should not have arisen where a rear area desk type (and those were the military recipients of "white-black" 1914 EKs) would not have simply received a KVK2X for the same sort of merit.

COULD a WW1 rear area clerk with a noncombatant EK2 have received a frontline EK2 in WW2? Theoretically, I suppose so.

But I would pay LESS, not MORE, for any purported example which was NOT documented. There should be negative financial inducement for fraud with these.

[Ed_Haynes]

This is a complex question (I think) and one which, though far outside my narrow collecting interests, has perplexed me. I can see scenarios where such an award could have taken place, though I'd expect that 99.99% of the medals presented as such would be faked.

I really want to hear from the experts on this.

[Paul R]

Hendrik

I do understand what you are saying and that is one of the factors in my head.

The second factor is that as you stated, there was only the one version of the EK2 in WW2.

After WW1, a lot of medics continued their education to become doctors by the time the war started. Due to the nature of combat in WW2, many doctors received EK2s. For example, I have a Medical Officer Major's Fliegerbluse has an EK2 sewn to it. It would stand to reason that it would be possible for a WW1 Noncom EK2 awardee would again be placed into a combat situation to where an EK could be awarded. Hense my first question...

I have never seen a noncombat EK2 with a 1939 clasp nor have I seen the NonCom EK2 next to a WW2 EK2.

I am sorry for my confusing reply, and I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.

Having a special fondness for medical tunics and bars, this has been perplexing me on and off for the better part of a year!

Regards

Paul

Edited December 1, 2005 by Paul Reck

[don]

I have posted before.The cross is marked and the ribbon does not glow.Told it came a big collection

in the US.Did someone earn it?Don't know

don

[Stogieman]

I've never seen a documented example of this. Nor have I ever seen a medal bar with the '39 spange on a NC-14EK2 that would have been logical in any sense of the word. Neithor have I ever seen a '14NC paired with a '39EK2... I have however seen ribbon bars with an NC'14EK2 paired up with some interesting things like a KVK2wX/East Medal..... but again, no documentation of the awards.

[Paul R]

I've never seen a documented example of this. Nor have I ever seen a medal bar with the '39 spange on a NC-14EK2 that would have been logical in any sense of the word. Neithor have I ever seen a '14NC paired with a '39EK2... I have however seen ribbon bars with an NC'14EK2 paired up with some interesting things like a KVK2wX/East Medal..... but again, no documentation of the awards.

Thank you Don for that interesting picture... makes one think!

Rick,

Thank you for your comments as well. It is a really perplexing thought... I know that there were only 13,000 people(recorded) that received the NC EK2 in WW1.

Over 5,000,000 Combattant EK2s in WW1 and lots of spanges for acts of valor in WW2.

Somewhere out there, an awardee of the NC EK2 was reconized for acts of valor in WW2 as well!!

Regards

PAul

[Chris Boonzaier]

Somewhere out there, an awardee of the NC EK2 was reconized for acts of valor in WW2 as well!!

Regards

PAul

Indeed, but outside of a documented group, a single with a spange is just a space filler.

[Paul R]

Indeed, but outside of a documented group, a single with a spange is just a space filler.

After a year of looking, I agree.