dond Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Thoughts on this bar please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 The reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 And a close up of the bravery medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacHel Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) WOW! Awesome set! No Wilhelm der Grosse medal? Edited August 5, 2009 by TacHel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) I second THAT WWWWOOOOOWWWWW !!!!! but would he be a prussian with Ek 1st ? Edited August 5, 2009 by scottplen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Newman Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 VERY nice group. The bar combination would point to the 2nd Bavarian Army Corps with 3 of the 4 bars normally seen on II BAK groups. It is missing the WORTH bar but it's very possible that a wound or sickness could have kept him out of that action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacHel Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 ... but would he be a prussian with Ek 1st ? Prussian medals were bestowed upon all participants, soldiers from Bavaria, Wurttemberg, Baden etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 :love: :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Dammit, you're the one who beat me to that spange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Thanks guys. I wondered about the EK2 being in first place and the lack of a Centennial medal myself. Then I figured, given it is a Jubilee period bar, why not the EK2 in first place. As for the Centennial, perhaps he didn't feel the need given the awards shown or this bar was put together for the Jubilee and prior to institution of the Centennial. I'll post better pics when it arrives. Now, given the combination of awards, the possible units based upon the battle clasps, and the date of the bar can we put a name to it? Perhaps cross referencing against the Prussian EK rolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 The only thing that seems not correct is the precedence. Even during the Jubilee period, a Bavarian would not have mounted his SBM in second place... Having said that, as a whole, the bar looks fine. Just incorrect precedence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Is he tracable? We have the EK2 list, so I would suppose the Bav. medal list is also available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Is he tracable? We have the EK2 list, so I would suppose the Bav. medal list is also available. Hello everyone: It would not be possible to come up with the recipient's name in my opinion. There are far too many NCO's and soldiers who probably received this combination of awards. Stogieman is correct in that a Bavarian would probably with few exceptions never place his TKM behind the EKII in a group. This makes the group highly unusual. I have however seen a photo of an 1870-71 Bavarian veteran who did wear his TKM behind the EKII with the medals pinned to his tunic individually. For Bavarians, they usually wore the TKM in the first position on their large medal groups until the mid-1930's when the NSDAP regulations changed everything to a standardized Prussian bias (even MMJO Knight's Cross recipients had to wear their MMJO BEHIND the lowly EKII!!). The TKM in this group is genuine, and the ribbon for it is old (original). This looks to be a good group that has not been messed with (although a somewhat unusual group in my opinion). This is of course the second coinage of the silver TKM awarded for the 1870-71 conflict. Congratulations Dond on obtaining such a nice group! Best regards, "SPM" (note that the new website format has changed me from "Schießplatzmeister" to "Schie?platzmeister"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacHel Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Stogieman makes a good point. A Bavarian would've normally mounted the EK2 2nd. Could this possibly be a Prussian decorated by a Bavarian unit? If so, he should be more easily identifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (New software upgrade is not yet recognizing non-english letters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have never seen a list of 1870/71 Bravery Medal recipients. It might be theoretically possible that a Prussian got a "courtesy" award, since I have posted the Militärpaß of an ordinary Prussian NCO who got the Saxon St Henry Medal in Gold (!!!!!!) apparently on some sort of "quota exchange" to wear with his EK2. NO connection whatsoever with Saxony in his case. I'm not aware of any non-Bavarians receiving this bravery medal during the World War, so chances are here it was simply mis-mounted by a Bavarian who THOUGHT the Iron Cross "outranked" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have never seen a list of 1870/71 Bravery Medal recipients. It might be theoretically possible that a Prussian got a "courtesy" award, since I have posted the Militärpaß of an ordinary Prussian NCO who got the Saxon St Henry Medal in Gold (!!!!!!) apparently on some sort of "quota exchange" to wear with his EK2. NO connection whatsoever with Saxony in his case. I'm not aware of any non-Bavarians receiving this bravery medal during the World War, so chances are here it was simply mis-mounted by a Bavarian who THOUGHT the Iron Cross "outranked" it. Hello again: The only listings of 1870/71 TKM recipients that I am aware of are in Bavarian regimental histories. I have never seen a TKM awarded to a non-Bavarian during any time period. I find it extremely unlikely that the recipient of this group was not a Bavarian. Best regards, "SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Are there any on-line histories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 the missing 1897 Centenar medal makes the date clear - this bar is from between 1895 and 1987 !!! In 1895 both , the EK oakleaves and the battle clasps for the 70/71 medal were given out 25 years after the war and our man put the oakleaves and the clasps on his bar - in 1897 the Centenar maedal was given out and every still living soldier from the 70/71 war got one - I am shure that he would have put it on his bar too.... so in my eyes this bar is 100% from 1896 (+-2months ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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