Finland New Finnish Medal Bars W/ German Decorations

[Jani Tiainen]

Dear Friends,

I have got new nice medal bars. I believe some of these could be tracked and wish any help.

If the number of possibly recipients could be limited to reasonable number of people I will be able to get list of Finnish 2nd class Crosses of Liberties awarded to Germans. I will gladly share my information if any has similar research going on.

I know some are impossible to track, but enjoy the pictures

1st Colonial veteran w/Bremen & Lubeck and 2nd class Cross of Liberty.

Jani Tiainen

[Jani Tiainen]

2nd bar,

This is big one with Hohenzollern and Red Eagle, also Centennial medal tells, that when in Finland 1918 he has been in his 40's.

My biggest hopes regarding tracking the owner goes with this.

Jani

[Jani Tiainen]

3rd bar,

This might be difficult, though I have no idea how many of the Order, that is 2nd on the bar was awarded. I am not sure wheter I will be able to find list of German recipient for Finnish Civil Guards Cross of merit (last one). Nice combination anyway.

All your thoughts are welcome,

[Jani Tiainen]

4th bar,

This one is impossible to track, but actually WW2 bars with Finnish Crosses of Liberty type 1941 are very difficult to find.

Enjoy

[Jani Tiainen]

Last two, both impossible to track. There would be a slight chance to find year mark on the Order of the White Rose and see the German recipients from that year... but it would require hours of time and plenty of luck.

Lower one has 1918 type Cross of Liberty and Liberation war medal typical combination for Baltic Division veterans.

Jani

[Claudio]

Hi Jani,

The Friedrichsorden RK 2. Klasse mit Schwertern, according to my references, has been awarded about 5'111 times, the RK 1st class about 1'766 for comparison. It was quite a widely awarded order to Württemberg junior officers, often awarded also to officers of other German states who had a connection with Württemberg. Some of the most famous recipient were GFM Erwin Rommel, GenObst Heinz Guderian. Check also the very informative and great webpage of a very knowledgable GMIC member's, Dave Danner: http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/wuerttemberg.htm.

Are these bars coming up soon for sale on auction I might know?!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Guest Rick Research]

Jani-- if you can send me the list of Crosses of Liberty 2nd Class 1918 then I can PROBABLY get who the first bar belonged to from the Lübeck Roll-- but I can't do it the other way around siince we have no Finnish Roll.

Your second bar from a couple of years back has been ID'd by me... maybe it was not posted in the other thread because I didn't know if you still had the bar. That one is possible from the Hohenzollern and Strelitz rolls, which confirm his presence in Finland--

Oberstleutnant aD William (yes, WILLIAM) Halling of 1. Garde Ulanen Regiment.

Did that once belong to George Seymour?

Whatever happened to your book? I'm DESPERATE for that reference book in NOT-Finnish!

[Jani Tiainen]

Thanks all for your input,

I have friend who does research and has the list of VR2 to Germans, though I dont know what kind of format it is - I mean he has put it together after years in archives and if its computer data base with all other lists included I doubt he will not give it. He has been very helpful any time I have needed some information anyway. I'll find out and if possibly Rick will definetly get the roll. Its actually something small worth to publish.

More about publishing - script and pics have been ready for my book since May. I have been waiting for edited draft to see how it goes. I talked with the publisher early this year and told them I will publish the book myself if its not ready by the end of this year - in that time they promised it would be printed out late fall. We'll see... I believe they really want to make it ready since they spent two months just for editing my 1000+ pictures and there are 300+ pre-orders.

If you mean by the group I had (sold 2007) but bought back last year, one with the EK2 with Luftkrieg bar - many thanks for information... or was it some other group I have posted? The one I mean was purchased directly from Germany.

Regards,

Jani

PS. I finally got real-Admiral Hugo Meurer's bar I have been chasing for years :)

[Jani Tiainen]

Are these bars coming up soon for sale on auction I might know?!

Ciao,

Claudio

Now you know why I wanted you to visit my shop on sunday

And answer to your question is yes - unfortunate for me since I would like to keep them all.

Jani

[Guest Rick Research]

I seem to remember Halling's medal bar in George's collection, but had forgotten who it was worn by-- had to find him again from the Strelitz roll.

If you can copy and paste the Liberty 2nd Roll by PM to me here when you get it... that would be much appreciated.

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is a perfect example of the limitations on information and the lengths to which a Research Cyborg has to go to make identifications:

This medal bar in the German Army Museum at Rastatt collection appeared anonymously (as did everything shown) in a Britsish "some of everything" generic "collecting militaria" book in 1983:

We have very bad Prussian Hohenzollern rolls for the wartime HOH3X-- no first names or units. We have the Baden Zähringen Lion rolls, which is a great help. We are working on the Mecklenburg-Schwerin Rolls. The Bremen and Hamburg Rolls exist but we do not have them.

The Wehrmacht 25 and 12 here MIGHT be "tricks" since this COULD be a zV type who previously had the old XXV.

And sure enough...

Then Oberstleutnant Müller is an exact total match on all the German WW1 awards. Finnish decorations were never shown in Rank Lists. This "Müller" retired from the Reichsheer before Hitler came to power and was re-treaded back in for WW2 service, correctly updating his old XXV to the Wehrmacht long services per regulations--

Generalleutnant zV LUDWIG Müller (1876-after 1958). I'm not sure if he made it into the final Biblio volume on German Generals before they abandoned that project, for a death date.

But you see here that although the Rank Lists do not SHOW Finnish awards, in this case (as with Halling, above) the German "match" can prove the existence of Finnish awards even with no paper trail.

Add one more "definite" to the "FinnFK2X" list. :cheers:

[Jani Tiainen]

3rd bar,

This might be difficult, though I have no idea how many of the Order, that is 2nd on the bar was awarded. I am not sure wheter I will be able to find list of German recipient for Finnish Civil Guards Cross of merit (last one). Nice combination anyway.

All your thoughts are welcome,

I have just managed to get list of the Finnish Civil Guards Cross of Merits to Germans ->sent it to Wizard and hoping for the best

Jani

[Oiva]

Hello Jani and all others; Great bars and of course I like anything Finnish! regards, Oiva

[Jani Tiainen]

Whatever happened to your book? I'm DESPERATE for that reference book in NOT-Finnish!

See This

Jani

[Ulsterman]

See This

Jani

what? where?

[Jani Tiainen]

what? where?

Oops, forgot the link

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=41391&st=0&p=382611&fromsearch=1&#entry382611

Jani

[sftrooper86]

Hello,

I was wondering if by chance anyone might know what these 2 last Finnish medals are on this Police Officer's medal bar?

Happy Holidays,

Vince Leone

[Claudio]

Hi Vince,

The first medal is the Medal of Liberty:

Associated with the Cross of Liberty and instituted at the same time, on 4 March 1918, by the Senate at Wasa. The medal was created in two classes, the 1st class in silver (blue ribbon with thin white side stripes, the 2nd class in bronze, (scarlet ribbon with broad yellow stripes) for award to noncoms and other ranks for bravery in the field.

The obverse shows the head of a crowned Finnish lion, raising a paw holding a sword. Around the edge are the words "URHEUDESTA FÖR TAPPERHET" (For Bravery, in Finnish and Swedish). The reverse has a laurel wreath surrounding the text "SUOMEN / KANSALTA / 1918" (From the people of Finland).

The second medal is the Commemorative Medal of the War of Liberation:

Awarded to all who had participated in the war to secure Finland's independance. Instituted on 10 September 1918 by the Finnish Senate in Helsinki, this blackened iron medal was originally decreed to hang from a dark blue ribbon. In order to avoid confusion with the Order of the White Rose's ribbon, General Mannerheim decided on 3 July 1919 to have this medal's ribbon altered and black side stripes were adopted. On the same day a silver heraldic rose was instituted for wearing on the ribbon in case of an award for bravery. Equally instituted that day were 11 silver bars bearing the names of actions in which the recipient had participated:

OESTERBOTTENS KARALIAN FRONT

FILPULA VIBORG

TAMMERFORS LEMPAALA-LAHTIS

SATAKUNTA PELLINGE

SAVOLAX SYD FINLAND

KOUVOLA-KOTKA-FREDRIKSHAMM

The obverse shows the Finnish arms, a crowned rampant lion standing on a curved sword and holding a broken sword in its raised paw. The reverse shows the Cross of Liberty with in each of the upper angles an armoured arm holding a sword (as in the Cross's Military Division suspension). In the lower angles is the year "19 / 18".

Note: The medal shown is in a white metal rather than blackened iron. It is possible that this example was manufactured in Germany. Many members of the German Baltic Division participated in the liberation, and so would have been in line for the medal. If an actual Finnish issue medal (in blackened iron) was unavailable, a German-made copy may have sufficed.

Quotes from http://www.gwpda.org/medals/finmedl/finland.html

Ciao,

Claudio

[Arnim]

It is my understanding that Felix Steiner earned three Finland awards. Was one of these the Order of the White Rose?

[M Hunter]

It is my understanding that Felix Steiner earned three Finland awards. Was one of these the Order of the White Rose?

Quite possibly. He did have the Freiheitskreuz I. Klasse mit Bruststern, Eichenlaub und Schwertern

Best wishes

Matt

[Jani Tiainen]

Quite possibly. He did have the Freiheitskreuz I. Klasse mit Bruststern, Eichenlaub und Schwertern

Best wishes

Matt

Steiner also got the cross of merit of Finnish Civil Guards.

Jani

[Arnim]

I have just managed to get list of the Finnish Civil Guards Cross of Merits to Germans ->sent it to Wizard and hoping for the best

Jani

Can I get this list also? Was Felix Steiner on the list?

[christerd]

I would love to have a list for Germans with 2nd class liberty cross , I have bben working for years to find them but still only have 18 awarded in 1918 with names.

Christer