German/Austrian Medal Bar

[M Hunter]

Gents,

Came across this this evening, and would value your opinions.

There doesn't seem to be any Austrian Commemorative Medal for 1914-1918, but all his WW1 medals are Austrian. Perhaps someone can shed a bit of light on this for me?

P.S. Posting here and not in the Austrian section as this bar is mounted in the German fashion.

Best regards and as always my thanks!

Matt

[Guest Rick Research]

Typical construction which is a hopeful sign....

these days....

Initially Austrian Republic awards were basically banned by the new overlords. Exceptions were made for the WW1 Commemorative Medal and--oddly enough--the long service awards of the 1st Republic's Bundesheer. However we've seen "verboten" merit decorations of the Republic, mounted in wartime groups, so it all comes down to interpretation of regulations and getting away with it.

Three possibilities here

1) misinterpreted the ban as applying to the Commemorative Medal

2) an opponent of the Republic who refused to apply for one of its awards (Dollfuss freshly assassinated in abortive Nazi coup of 1934 etc etc)

3) this fellow was NOT an Austrian-- he was a Czech. By the time the Sudetenland had been annexed, Austria no longer existed, and the former Hapsburg officer had never applied for an "enemy" award under the Czechoslovak Republic.

Here is a pair from my late friend David Simmons' collection to the same man, circa 1938 (misinterpreted ban) and circa 1941 or so

with the "missing" Austrian Medal back on there, Hindenburg Cross added, and Bulgarian Medal tacked on the end-- those were still being issued well into the Second War by group padders.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Rick Research

[VtwinVince]

I find this combo highly unlikely without the ubiquitous EK2.

[militaria0815]

I find this combo highly unlikely without the ubiquitous EK2.

The 1914 Iron Cross was an officers award for Austrians, this is an EM/NCO bar. Edited January 4, 2010 by militaria0815

[M Hunter]

Thank you to Rick and everyone else for commenting.

Rick: Very interesting that this chap may have been Czech!

Vince: Here is another example of a bar like this without the EK2!

If anyone would like to PM regarding a rough estimate price for the medal bar pictured above, i would greatly appreciate it. Would just like to discuss over with someone the price it has been offered to me at. I am considering buying it, but do not want to be robbed! Still new to medal bar collecting as some here may know!

Kind regards

Matt

Edited January 4, 2010 by M Hunter

[sambolini]

The 1914 Iron Cross was an officers award for Austrians, this is an EM/NCO bar.

The second award on this bar was only awarded to officers.

Regards,

Sam

[M Hunter]

The second award on this bar was only awarded to officers.

Regards,

Sam

But it would be possible for an Austrian Officer, NOT to get an EK2?

Matt

[sambolini]

But it would be possible for an Austrian Officer, NOT to get an EK2?

Matt

Yes, of course, I was merely pointing out this is an officers bar, not an enlisted. The MVK (#1) and Signum Laudis medals (#3&4 ) were awarded to officers.

Regards,

Sam

[M Hunter]

Yes, of course, I was merely pointing out this is an officers bar, not an enlisted. The MVK (#1) and Signum Laudis medals (#3&4 ) were awarded to officers.

Regards,

Sam

Thank you Sam. This bar just gets more interesting!

Matt

[M Hunter]

Just trying to educate myself on the Austrian awards a little more and having done an internet search can find no in depth information on awards 3 & 4 with crowns...so opened a topic in the Austrian Section of the Forum.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=41695&st=0&p=385763&#entry385763

Kind regards

Matt

[Ulsterman]

Um-may we see the edge stitching please? I would REALLY want to pick this one up and look at it closely.

[M Hunter]

Um-may we see the edge stitching please? I would REALLY want to pick this one up and look at it closely.

Hi Ulsterman

Please explain what "edge-stiching" is... to me it does not look like the first and last ribbons are stiched to the backing cloth...but maybe you mean something else?

These are the only pictures the seller has provided so far.

Is ther something not right with it? Appreciate your looking and comment!

Thanks

Matt

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

I am suspicious about this group. What makes a red light turn on in my brain is the Dienstauszeichnung for 4 years of service in the Luftwaffe. I wonder what military career of that chap could be. He was definitely an officer of the K.u.K. Army during WWI, probably at least a captain by the end of war (MVK was seldom awarded to ranks below captain). He must have been already an officer before 1916 (Signum Laudis w. Franz-Joseph's effigy).

Where was he from and what was he doing after WWI? The Dienstauszeichnung for service in the Wehrmacht was established in 1936. Its conferment was discontinued I believe in early 1940. This means that - no matter where he may have lived before - the gentleman must have moved to the Reich and commenced his sevice in the Luftwaffe, not later than in 1936 - earlier than the German occupation of Czechoslovakia or the Anschluss of Austria.

To make things even more complicated, there is a KVK 2nd class w. Swords - what could he get it for?

To sum it up: I believe it to be just a compilation of various awards, not a group that belonged to someone particular.

[Ulsterman]

Hi Ulsterman

Please explain what "edge-stiching" is... to me it does not look like the first and last ribbons are stiched to the backing cloth...but maybe you mean something else?

These are the only pictures the seller has provided so far.

Is ther something not right with it? Appreciate your looking and comment!

Thanks

Matt

The cloth back of the bar-how was it attached? Is it cloth?

[M Hunter]

The cloth back of the bar-how was it attached? Is it cloth?

It seems to be sewn down, can make out the threads from the picture. This bar was a potential purchase, but in the end i decided to give it a miss.

Thanks to all for the help.

Matt