arb Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Komtur, I believe that this medal bar belonged to Dr. K A R L Rudolf August Oelker. In 1866 he was an Oberarzt with the hannoverian medical corps. In 1867 he was taken into the Prussian army in Feldart. R. 10. During the 1870/71 war he was the regimental doctor in Inf. R. 57. He eventually retired a Gen.Arzt. In the 1871 Rangliste there is only one other officer who had the only the EK2w and HG4. This was Major Marcard (1866 Rittm. in the Königin Hus. R., Reg. Quartiermeister) He is shown with an EK2w and HG4, but in the 1872 Rangliste his EK2 is now for combatants. Also, he is not listed in the 1877 EK award roll uneartherd by Glenn. So, I think there is a strong chance Dr. Oelker is your man. Andy
Komtur Posted January 10, 2010 Author Posted January 10, 2010 ... So, I think there is a strong chance Dr. Oelker is your man ... Thanks for this idea At first I must admit, that in my opinion only the positions 1, 2 and 4 of this bar, I bought without any decoration, are absolutely clear because of the ribbons and the size of the impression of the medal and its ring. The Guelphen 4th class is logical because he was an Hannoverian and because of the light blue ribbon remains on the bar. But there are some Hannoverian medals of merit possible too. When I searched the rank lists of a person with the combination EK2w and HG4 I came to Oelker too. But he could have worn this combination only for a short time, because of his DAK to be seen in the rank list of 1874. Another point is the KDM70, that should be the combattant version for a military medical doctor. But happily I found another suspect: Wirklicher Geheimer Kriegsrath von Tschirschnitz. We find him with this combination in the rank list of 1889 (see scan). In the Ordensalmanach we find him with the CM, so he must has worn such a bar for about 8 years, if he added the CM in 1897, if not, until he died. Kind regards, Komtur.
Komtur Posted January 10, 2010 Author Posted January 10, 2010 Txs Mike and Matt for your kind comments Here the reverse of the bar:
VtwinVince Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Great restoration job, something I've been known to do as well. Very unique spange as well.
Valter Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Very beautiful bar nad nice restoration job!!! Is there a particular reason why all the ribbons except the 3rd one are rounded, and the 3rd one tight and flat?
Ulsterman Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Doctors received the noncomb. 1870-71 medal. there are a couple of "double award" document sets out there though that show that Doctors were originally given the "combat" version and later, the noncombat.
Komtur Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Doctors received the noncomb. 1870-71 medal. IMHO that is not correct. All medical officers, who cross the border to france in the war, got the "normal" combattant medal an the combattant ribbon as all officers did (see scan of the regulations of this medal). Only a few medical officers, wich stayed at home, got the noncombattant medal on the combattant ribbon. Civil doctors, who cross the border to france in the war and served there in field hospitals, got the noncombattant medal on the noncombattant ribbon. Kind regards, Komtur. Edited January 13, 2010 by Komtur
Komtur Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 Very beautiful bar nad nice restoration job!!! Is there a particular reason why all the ribbons except the 3rd one are rounded, and the 3rd one tight and flat? The ribbon on the 3rd position was removed before I got the fragment of this bar. What we see there is the under layer of the former ribbon. These under layers we find under the other three ribbons too and they are always the same as the original kind of ribbon over it. Therefore I suppose that the removed ribbon on the 3rd position was of light blue as its underlayer ribbon. Kind regards, Komtur.
Valter Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Komtur, thanks alot for this explanation! I knew for existence of underlayer ribbons, but thought in this case it's something else.
Wild Card Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 :jumping: Excellent job. Very inspiring. One question - Is the Langensalza medal named?
Ulsterman Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Not technically correct Komtur, but I am not kidding. I also have the regs. Note when the regs for the medals were originally promulgated too. There was a gap of several months as I recall. There are two documented instances where field Doctors were originally awarded the combat medal and later the noncom. medal. One was the subject of an JOMSA article (which INCLUDED a US civil war campaign medal) and the other was on the WAF (via Detlev) about 3 years ago. One occurrence is a unique exception, twice may be a pattern.
Komtur Posted January 18, 2010 Author Posted January 18, 2010 Not technically correct Komtur, but I am not kidding. I also have the regs. Note when the regs for the medals were originally promulgated too. There was a gap of several months as I recall. There are two documented instances where field Doctors were originally awarded the combat medal and later the noncom. medal. One was the subject of an JOMSA article (which INCLUDED a US civil war campaign medal) and the other was on the WAF (via Detlev) about 3 years ago. One occurrence is a unique exception, twice may be a pattern. Hm, unfortunately I do not know this JOMSA article, would be really interesting for me. But again, the regulations are clear and I can show lots of portraits and some bars too, where a doctor got in order to these regulations: 1.) as military medical officer (army or navy), who was in the war in france = combat medal on combat ribbon (to be find in "Statut" from 20. Mai 1871) 2.) as military medical officer (army or navy), who stayed at home = noncombat medal on combat ribbon (to be find in "Allerhöchster Erlaß" No. 1 from 22. Mai 1871) 3.) as civil doctor (e. g. red cross as some foreign doctors too), who was in the war in france = noncombat medal on noncombat ribbon (to be find in "Allerhöchster Erlaß" No. 2 from 22. Mai 1871) Between these regulations there is no big gap and I do not know later different regulations. 1.), 2.) and 3.) are different groups of persons, so there was no change in regulations, but 2.) and 3.) where additionel groups. As always there are mistakes and exceptions, especially if there where about 1.1 Mio combat and about 0.4 Mio noncombat medals awarded. I could imagine, that there is one person with both versions, if he changed from one group to the other. That would be a possible construction for these cases. Kind regards, Komtur.
Komtur Posted January 18, 2010 Author Posted January 18, 2010 Excellent job. Very inspiring. One question - Is the Langensalza medal named? To find a not named Langensalza medal was a hard job, but I was in the end successfull :rolleyes:
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